Jehovah has Evil Spirit ?

by EverApostate 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • David_Jay


    Actually, being Jewish I don't have a need or desire to "paint" the Bible in a favorable light or "defend" how God is portrayed in Scripture.

    Jews don't use the Bible as the basis for our religion. It is a product of our religion and culture, but it holds a very different place and use in Judaism than it does in Christianity.

    My post was to point out that you wouldn't have this view to begin with if you weren't exposed to Watchtower teachings. Jews don't have it because we have different ideas about "evil" and the entire God concept by comparison.

    The Scriptures are a very dated, ancient view of how Jews of the past understood the world around them. While it still plays a significant part in Judaism, we aren't locked to view it's static concepts as Fundamentalist Christians do.

    And as for "defending" God, that demonstrates that the Marie Antoinette Effect might be playing a part here. Many practicing Jews are agnostic or even atheist. Even theist Jews will often claim that God acts unjust, unlovingly, unfair, and imperfectly in Scripture. We don't defend God. We wrestle with the concept, which is why were are called the children of "Israel." We don't accept God blindly as other religious people do.

    Even the idea that the Scriptures are the "Word of God," as you put it, I am sure is based on your limited exposure to Christianity. The critical Jewish view, for instance, views Scripture as coming from humanity.

    The "Marie Antoinette Effect" merely refers to dealing with things based on a limited scope. This is why even atheists who were never religious often refer to ex-JWs and ex-Mormons who become atheist as "narrow atheists." The term "narrow" means having a limited or narrow view upon which to come to their conclusion.

    I actually support the atheist choice of many ex-JWs, and was merely referring to how exposure to the Watchtower religion can cause this effect. I was trying to defend the Bible.

  • David_Jay

    Correction, I WASN'T trying to defend the Bible or God.

  • James Mixon
    James Mixon
    Off topic..but why don't atheists get possessed by evil spirits???? Atheists have a magic wand against evil spirits to protect them, it is called by three mystic names, logic, reason and rationale.
  • scratchme1010

    Was just wondering how I didn’t come across this absurdity when I was a JW for 11 years.

    We come from a place where "questions and answers" means that they themselves provide both. That alone tells you how much they control what people get presented to them.

    I personally don't classify people and things as "good, bad, evil, etc", but I've always seen that the bible Jehovah is a very irresponsible being. I have posted that if you look at the psychological profile of that so-called god, we get Roger from American Dad.

  • David_Jay

    James Mixon,

    If it helps, Jews don't believe in evil spirits, otherwise known as "demons." While there is mention of them in Jewish religious thought, it is mostly in folklore and a facet of comical implications.

    The texts in the OP do not imply a "spirit" or demon in the Christian sense, but that God gave a "spirit of evil" to Saul. That expression is an ancient idiom for what we now know is clinical depression or some similar mental state in which one's "spirit" became aggravated.

    In reality, it is only Christians and other Gentile religions in which people are said to be "possessed by evil spirits," wherein the word "spirit" refers to an entity. The word spirit in the texts of the OP refers to a "frame of mind" or disposition.

  • James Mixon
    James Mixon

    David_Jay....OK this may start a new topic, but your view on the 40 year track though the desert..How many folks in the exodus,why did it take 40 years to go less then 300-400 miles...What's the true story?????

  • waton

    ..OK this may start a new topic, but your view on the 40 year track though the desert.

    well it is tenuous, but on topic! why would the anti-idolatry god use a snake idol to cure viper bites, as through magic, weird action at a distance as Einstein would say?

  • David_Jay

    The Exodus narrative was composed during the Babylonian exile and likely finalized shortly after the exile ended. Jews view the narrative as reflective of the diaspora Jews who were attempting to preserve their culture now that they had no land nor Temple in Babylon. Thus the Jewish practices and history were combined with folklore that was heavily slanted to give the customs of the Jews a religious connection.

    With that in mind, the answer is no. The 40-year trek of millions of people crossing the Sinai peninsula as found in Exodus is not viewed as literal in Judaism. If it were literal, a crowd that size would still be crossing the Sea of Reeds while the first Hebrews were approaching the traditional site of Mt. Sinai.

    While historically there is evidence that some of our ancestors likely lived in Egypt under the Hyskos dynasty, the following dynasty did endure a series of slave escapes, perhaps three or more, in which those welcomed under Hyskos rule left for the Fertile Crescent area and beyond.

    While there are some Jews who might give this a literal reading, the idea that his took 40 years is taught to teach a religious lesson more than report on history. It teaches the lesson that a new nation arose from the slaves that left their previous life behind, like one generation bringing forth a new, totally free one. 40 gets used a lot like this in Scripture, with one situation being renewed into something totally different.

    As for the snake used by Moses to cure in the wilderness, it appears to be a recurring symbol of rebellion. When Adam and Eve rebel, the narrative has a snake in it. When Pharaoh rebels against God, Moses' staff becomes a snake that devours the snakes of Pharoah's magicians. When the people rebel during the Exodus, they are punished by snakes and healed by seeing a symbol of a snake on a rod, as if reminding them of the rebellion of Adam and Eve.

    Recall that the Torah is one book, and that it originally ended with Numbers. Deuteronomy is one of the final redactions to the Torah, added sometime after Numbers was completed. While definite certainty doesn't exist about this, it is not unlikely that the snake is a purposefully employed narrative device. Torah begins with a rebellion (symbolized with a snake) and originally ended in Numbers with a snake image reminiscent of the Genesis story.

    It may be that this was a commentary on the destruction of a snake idol by King Hezekiah, an idol that was worshipped by some Israelites as mentioned in 2 Kings. These Israelites may have tried to legitimize their cult by claiming this was the very image forged by Moses, but it is quite likely that this was a popular myth about the idol's origin. The use of the symbol in Genesis through Numbers may be based on that image, given the fact that the snake does seemed to be used as a device in Torah each time disobedience or rebellion arises.

  • James Mixon
    James Mixon

    David Thanks...That's believable.

  • WTWizard

    Joke-hova IS an evil entity. That thing wishes to enslave the whole world, ensuring damnation for all human souls. It is even proud to proclaim that "the nations have had their time, and now it is time for its will (enslaving the whole world under strict communism) to take place. And yet, anyone that doesn't just plain adore that thing for doing this will be destroyed.

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