The Pope a JW...!!! (page 2)

TR

Thanks Julie and Yeru,

valuable insights for me, since my wife was raised Catholic.

TR

"cults suck"

Thank-you all for your comments. Several people refered to the RCC as
being much more open-minded than I potrayed in my first post.That is
no doubt true in many western settings.I remember having a study in a
priest`s home in the mid-west.It is also true that unlike cults, the
RCC will do works of compassion for the non-Catholic, i.e. hospital,
refuge work,etc. As far as openess towards other religions,however,I
would like to point out that the attitude varies greatly from place to
place.I have encountered the Catholic church in both Mexico and in the
Philippines and there was by no means that `glastnot` openess that
several of the posts refered to. Much to the contrary.In the Philippines a priest ranted and raved with great anger and told the
villagers, `If you listen to these people,your baptism will be dis-
avowed!`.The fear tactic worked.Most people fled.In Mexico a priest
did a flyer distribution telling villagers not to listen to protestant
missionary aquaintances,etc.In both countries,the attitude towards
images was not educational, but rather that of worship. In the Philippines, where I lived for a year,the kissing of statues and
lighting candles,etc. is almost identical to what goes on here in
Japan in the guise of Budhism. So, while I don`t question the previous posts evaluation of modern Catholicism in the west, I would
suggest that the actual state of affairs varies greatly from country
to country. JWD

Julie

:So, while I don`t question the previous posts evaluation of modern Catholicism in the west, I would
suggest that the actual state of affairs varies greatly from country
to country.

I will concede this point. So much for global unity.

Julie, who is always willing to concede a good point

JWD

Thanx for conceding, Julie. My sister-in-law`s name is Julie.
`Julie`s must be nice people. JWD

JWD

As far as lack of global unity.That could be said for the WTS as well.
Here in Japan, there are many aspects of JW life which are unique to
the society here.It`s not uncommon for bros. to go to the US and visit
congregations there only to come back and say...brace yourself for
this...the JWs are SO MUCH FREER in the US. Can you believe that!
That should give you an idea of the rigidness of life for bros. here
in the land of the rising sun.
It`s probably unrealistic for any religion to expect or claim `unity`
on an international basis. JWD

bluesapphire

Julie, I was going to make similar corrections as you did and am glad I read on before I did because it would have been redundant.

I have come to the conclusion that the WTS is mimicking the Catholic Church ON PURPOSE. I believe they view it as their competition and they know that most of the potential converts will come via the Catholic Church. That's why they focus on predominantly Catholic countries and ignore countries such as China.

The main reason most JW's are ex-Catholics though is the simple fact that most Christians are Catholics. Therefore, there is the bigger pool of water to fish in (more dense). There is little difference between JW's and Fundamentalists here. Fundies also fish in the Catholic pool.

The decision you ultimately (not to believe in the Bible or be Christian) made makes more sense to me than becoming a member of any sort of Bible-thumping Christian sect. After all, if I'm going to believe in the Bible, then why would I reject the teachings of the Church who gave me the Bible. What people don't understand is that the Bible is a product of the Catholic Church. Here they are trying to build a religion out of the Bible when historically it was the other way around.

I decided to become Catholic. It's my choice based on the research I have done about what Christianity is. IF I'm going to be Christian, I'm going to be Catholic. But the Church doesn't teach that you have to be Catholic to be saved. It teaches that even Pagans and Atheists can receive eternal salvation.

I think people spend more time hating what they BELIEVE the Catholic Church is instead of what it REALLY is. And I used to be into apologetics but now I think it's a waste of time. I'm not going to defend the RCC. I'm just pointing out the historical facts.

Granted, there are plenty true things anti-Catholics can bring up to criticize the Cathollic Church, why the WTS continues to perpetuate falsehoods is beyond me. Well, not really. They do it on purpose because it serves their purpose.

Somebody in another post commented that the WTS is in the business of self-perpetuation. That sums it up period! The Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years. If and when the WTS (not to mention these other sects) has been around for 2000 years, it too will be guilty of as many, if not more, sins as the RCC and there will surely be some other new sect out there fishing in the pool of the WTS.

ozziepost

Blue Sapphire (what a pretty name you have!),

Without wishing to criticize your conscientious beliefs, may I comment on some of the points you make in your post.

**the WTS is mimicking the Catholic Church ON PURPOSE**
This sounds like another example of the conspiracy theory. Maybe you haven't been able to acquire knowledge of the inner workings of the Borg. I suggest you read both of Ray Franz's books. He makes the comment that, no matter what level of the Borg, all are "victims of victims".

**little difference between JW's and Fundamentalists here**
Really? Do you have evidence of that?

**the Bible is a product of the Catholic Church**
Oh, come now!

**It teaches that even Pagans and Atheists can receive eternal salvation**
Does the Bible teach that? Remember you said that the "Bible is a product of the Catholic Church".

**The Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years**
That's historical revisionism. You're repeating the Reformation all over again.

Do you recall seeing newly converted JWs who seemed to look at everything in the Borg with idealism? It can work in other areas too, you know.

Cheers,

Ozzie

Yerusalyim

Ozzie,

You do make some good points, but I'd like to nit pick a few of them.

"**the Bible is a product of the Catholic Church**
Oh, come now!"
It was the Catholic Church that defined what books would be included in the bible. Remember, there were all kinds of books floating around that claimed to be scripture, The Shepherd of Hermes, The Protoevangelem of James, and The Acts of Peter to name a few. It was Ireneaus, the Bishop of Lyons France that gave us the definitive list that was later confirmed in a council of the church.

"**The Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years**
That's historical revisionism. You're repeating the Reformation all over again."

This is pretty much true. The structures that the apostles left behind developed into the Catholicism we know today. Not Revisionism, but an accurate interpretation of the facts.

**It teaches that even Pagans and Atheists can receive eternal salvation**
Does the Bible teach that? Remember you said that the "Bible is a product of the Catholic Church".

The bible does teach that those who through no fault of their own have not heard the gospel MIGHT be saved, see Romans Chapter 2.

Other than that, DRIVE ON BIG MAN!

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

dark clouds

Julie:
thanks for your insight,
i agree the borg has the equivalent hold of the early RCC centuries ago, the fear the RCC holds is through fire and brimestone and excommunication though the latter is not really as enforced as often anymore
while the borg maintains fear through harmageddon and DF'ing

Yeru:
can you explain the following? im not sure i understand what you meant by this, i feel i lost the meaning of what you were stating. . .

Forth: Check out the Revelation book and see how many drawings there are of Jehovah all gold and sitting on a throne.I
thought the 10 commandments forbade ANY image of God...! Both religions boast of a unified world-wide organization. That prohibition is against WORSHIPPING images. and isn't the church supposed to be one body?

thanks in advance

Ozzie:

**the Bible is a product of the Catholic Church**

i have to agree with bluesapphire.
'history' wrote the bible, the church was the organization responsible for picking and choosing through the manuscripts, deciding which would be accepted and which would be labeled apocryphal.
they were also responsible for the scribes that copied and translated it,
they were responsible for the bible burnings and heretic burnings.
so in essence what we have now is a product of what the church allowed to get through.

chuck