How Would You Prove To A JW That They Are Wrong?

by minimus 50 Replies latest jw friends

  • minimus

    What could you say to prove to a Witness that they simply do not have The Truth?

  • Vanderhoven7

    What I can prove, even to them, is that their religion is not biblical; it is beyond what is written and is totally dependent on the speculations of men.

  • blownaway

    Impossible. They are trained to not look at anything critical, and not to listen to people who are not JW supporters. You can't. Its obvious they are wrong but the old saying you can lead a horse to water.

  • DesirousOfChange

    You can only plant seeds to help them to eventually have doubts. Hopefully, the doubts will result in them sitting down with our friend, Google. Once they see than 100s of 1000s of JWs have the same doubts and questions the Pandora's Box will have been opened. It only takes one issue -- one domino -- you what happens when one domino falls...............

    Image result for dominos falling

  • OneEyedJoe

    What's the point of this thread? I suspect literally everyone on this forum knows good and well that there is no set of words such that when said in the correct order they would convince any JW that it is not a cult. Were that not the case, there would be no cult.

    Proving it's not the truth and proving it to the satisfaction of a JW are two wildly different things. The former is trivially easy, the latter is likely impossible for a large number of current JWs.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Looking at the very foundational teachings of your religion:

    1. Is it written or beyond what is written to say that the Creator has promised to bring about a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away? (We don't teach that anymore) (Yes but JW's taught that right up to 1995)

        - Was that just speculation? Isn't putting false words in God's mouth, blasphemy?

      - How old would the youngest person who saw the events of 1914 be today?

    2. Is it written or beyond what is written to say that the heavenly class was numerically complete in 1935?

    (We don't teach that anymore)

    • But you did teach that for over 70 years, right up till 2007.

    • If this information did not come from the Bible, where did it come from?

    • Was 1935 only the speculation of men?

    3. Is it written or beyond what is written to say that the apostles went to heaven in the spring of 1918?

    • Is 1918 a biblical date?

    • How do JWs know this from the Bible?

    • Would anyone studying the Bible independently come up with 1918?

    4. Is it written or beyond what is written to say that Jesus rejected all churches of Christendom in the fall of 1918?

    • How do JWs know this if it's not in the Bible?

    • Did anything concrete happen to the churches in 1918 to confirm this event?

    • Didn't the WTS predict specific events would happen to the churches in 1918?

    5. Is it written or beyond what is written to say that Jesus appointed certain Bible Students in Brooklyn New York in 1919 to act as His Faithful Slave?

    • Is 1919 a biblical date?

    • How do JWs know what Jesus did in 1919 if it's not in the Bible?

    • Can you name these men that Jesus chose?

    • Did Jesus somehow let them know that he had appointed them?

      Were not the leaders in Brooklyn teaching that Pastor Russell was the Faithful slave in 1919?

    • Why do you think Jesus choose them?

    • Weren't these men teaching serious error in 1919?

    Note: Some of the errors according to current WTS teachings include:

    • Jesus was to be really worshiped as a secondary god.

    • 1925 would see the resurrection of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and other OT worthies

    • Pyramidology was used to confirm Christ's 1914 second advent/coming

    6. Is it written or beyond what is written to say that the Great Crowd of Revelation 7 was forming in 1935?

        - Is 1935 a biblical date?

      - How do you know this if it's not in the Bible?

        - Babies born in 1935 are over 80 today. How many have gone through the tribulation?

    7. Is it written or beyond what is written to say that members of the Great Crowd are associated with an organization with headquarters in New York?

    8. Is it written or beyond what is written to say that members of the Great Crowd are:

        - not entitled to partake of the communal bread and wine?

        - not in new covenant

        - not part of the body of Christ; not in Christ

          - not declared righteous, having Christ's righteousness imputed to them

          - not a heavenly class; not spirit begotten

    Note: The sub-questions above are designed to be asked if the Witnesses you are talking to affirm a point is not beyond what is written. The first question after any affirmation would be: Can you show me that in the Bible please?

    Would you know any of these events (1– 6) took place if the Watchtower Society hadn't told you?

    Reference Your Authority: Since these foundational teachings of your religion are extra-biblical it would be presumptuous for me to accept them as authoritative. I must therefore reject these as being the speculations of men.

  • minimus

    I believe points can be made that will get a Witness to think. Many of us knew there were a lot of errors made in the early days of the religion but when we start thinking about it, it’s hard to ignore ALL the mistakes made by Jehovah or his CHOSEN ONES.

  • JW_Rogue

    You don't need to prove anything and I don't think that method works anyway. Just opening them up to the idea that not everything WT says is the truth and that it is okay to disagree on some matters is the first step.

  • minimus

    If saying not everything the watchtower says is true, then you would have to prove that to be true. I know what got to me. If you have a half a brain , all the inconsistencies catch up to you. Having a simple question raised can get you to think.... not necessarily immediately but many times, eventually!

  • Crazyguy

    I was able to prove just about every one of their teachings wrong to myself using just the Bible and common sense. Take for example the blood doctrine, they use a scripture in Acts to say it’s a valid doctrine and wasn’t lost to the new covenant.

    But one can easily use the scriptures to point out that jesus said “nothing entering into a man can defile him,” “we desire mercy not sacrifice, “ saying it was ok to break the laws of the covenant if it was to save life.

    Then there the scriptures in later New Testament writtings where Paul says it ok in Corinthians and I believe Colossians to go ahead and eat bloody meat. Last but not least can’t remember the book but Peter is given a vision of a table full of unclean things and is told it’s ok to partake, destroying the Jewish ideas on what and not what to eat.

    These scriptures with out even going into the Old Testament prove thier blood doctrine wrong but most JWs won’t see it because thier thinking ability has been removed from them.

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