Need Help - How do I refute this???

by HappyBlessedFree 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • HappyBlessedFree

    Thank you all, there is so much good info here I will have to reread all your posts again in the morning! Thank you for your support, it matters!

  • smiddy3

    Picking up on what TFG said is your husband aware that the F&DS class is only a "Theocratic Arrangement" and that no individual GB members make up the faithful slave ?

    When Steven Unthank tried to sue WT in a court of law that was their response .There are posts about that case.

    Also if God picked the"Bible Students" back in 1919 on the basis of what they believed and taught back then ,he would have to reject them now simply because they don`t believe anymore what they taught and believed back then ?

    Good luck with enlightening him .

  • Tobyjones262

    The JWs use this argument against Rapture. Its not in the bible. But they make up a word to reference something and its fine. Assholes.

  • DesirousOfChange

    so his response was that the nation of Israel had times when they weren’t doing the right thing, but it was still Gods chosen organization.

    And God/Jesus eventually rejected the national of Israel.

    Do not all the negative things happen to WT (Million$ lost in court cases, declining revenue, declining attendance, etc) PROVE that God has abandoned the Organization today.

    Is it possible that God would allow "apostates" in the highest offices of the WTS to apostatize the Organization? (Remind them He did so before -- at least that's what JWs believe about Ray Franz.) So, shouldn't we be cautious about all these changes that do not appear to be in harmony with the Bible. Or, how about the direction (command) to obey them even if it does not appear reasonable? Do we follow "apostates" without question?

  • truth_b_known

    Charles Taze Russell founded the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society in 1881 and began publishing "The Watch Tower" as well as founded the religious organization known as "The International Bible Students." From 1909 to 1931 The International Bible Students severed into over 7 groups -

    3 groups under the banner of "Associated Bible Students"

    Pastoral Bible Instituted that published "The Herald of Christ's Kingdom," a monthly magazine like the Watchtower.

    The Standfast Bible Association that was started because of Rutherford's hypocrisy in teaching pacifism, but purchasing U.S. War Bonds during WWI. Elijah's Voice Society splintered off that group.

    Dawn Bible Students Association who publish the magazine "The Dawn - Herald of Christ's Presence." The Independent Bible Students splintered from them in 1974 at a convention.

    Not to mention the Free Covenant Believers who published the magazine "The Kingdom Scribe," the Christian Discipling Ministries International, the Free Bible Students based in Germany who were also persecuted during WWII and also published the magazine "Der Pilgrim," the Layman's Home Missionary Movement started by Paul S. Johnson who believed he, not Rutherford, should have been Russell's successor. The Epiphany Bible Students Association and Laodicean Home Missionary Movement. Then of course we finally have the Friends of Man movement that started in 1917.

    All of these groups, including Jehovah's Witnesses splintered from Charles Taze Russell's International Bible Students. They all held meeting, attended conventions, many published periodical magazines. Even Charles Taze Russell's International Bible Students is a splinter group of the Millerites who believed Christ would return and end would come in 1843. When it didn't, many left. Just like many left the International Bible Students when Rutherford conducted his hostile takeover of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society.

    So the question is - Why are Jehovah's Witnesses the one, true religion? Other than self-proclamation, why in 1919 did the International Bible Students produce the "Faithful and Discreet Slave"? Why wasn't it in 1831?

    Also, Israel was "God's chosen people" beginning with the covenant with Abraham. It also ended, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, when the nation of Israel rejected Jesus and Christianity?

    How do we know that it wasn't one of the many other groups who also gave false prophecy claiming the end would come in a certain year are God's chosen people on Earth? The all go to meetings and conventions. They publish magazines. They go door-to-door announcing Jehovah's Kingdom. They experience growth. They have all been persecuted for their beliefs. How can one say they don't have "the Truth"?

  • Incognito

    You are attempting to awaken your husband by disproving JW doctrine or pointing out flaws with WT current policy or actions. JWs have been conditioned to refute or ignore anything or anyone that opposes or highlights the flaws of the religion. Anything you throw at him, even when provable, he will probably rationalize, disregard or repeat the party line.

    You know your husband so you probably recognize issues which affect him on a personal basis. You might have better success by initially concentrating on matters you know he doesn't fully support or that he questions.

    Instead of presenting information, perhaps ask one or two questions for him to further consider, which may cause him to perform research for himself.

  • Ding

    My mom dismisses all this as “ wrong understanding” and not any factual things

    My response: "They shouldn't call it 'the truth' until they can guarantee with 100% certainty that none of their current teachings is a 'wrong understanding' as well. I don't mind them making mistakes. What I object to is being required to believe everything those admittedly fallible men tell me."

  • john.prestor

    I don't know what you believe or don't believe but I would really encourage you to avoid the whole Bible says this Bible says that thing in trying to help your husband see that the Governing Body takes advantage of him and others. You can go around in circles for your entire life debating what the Bible says or doesn't say because the Bible quite frankly says so many things.

  • I believe in overlapping
    I believe in overlapping

    But according to the bible God destroyed the nation of Israel and all its Kings because they were doing bad.

  • redvip2000
    so his response was that the nation of Israel had times when they weren’t doing the right thing, but it was still Gods chosen organization.

    Did God allow Israel to preach things that were incorrect to unbelievers? The job of preaching the kingdom news only makes sense if it's predicated on preaching something that is true. If the Org is preaching falsehoods about 1914 or about blood transfusions, or about the overlapping generation, and the world-at-large rejects the message, how can God in good conscience punish those people? After all, they would be right in rejecting it.

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