Drinking during Prohibition

by Davros 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • Davros
    Davros

    During a recent conversation I had with someone, a question came up that I really don't know the answer to.

    Did JW's still drink during Prohibition in the US during the 1920's until it's repeal in 1933? Was alcoholic beverages considered forbidden and possibly subject to disfellowshipping?

    Yes, I know of the stories about Judge Rutherford and the rest of them at that time boozing it up. But what about the average JW or Bible Student during that time? Were they required to abstain from alcohol? I guess it was OK after prohibition was repealed because a lot of JW's love their drinks.

  • FFGhost
    FFGhost

    "Disfellowshipping" wasn't invented until the mid-to-late 30's, well after the end of Prohibition.

    And even that was just for "exceptional" cases. The invention of disfellowshipping in the form like it is today (judicial committee of 3 elders, 2 witnesses or confession required, appeals, reinstatement, etc.) wasn't invented until 1951 or so.

    There really wasn't any sort of "enforcement mechanism" for undesired behavior until well into the reign of Pappy Knorr.

    The stifling stranglehold on "acceptable" behavior arose only slowly, slowly, over decades, like the gradual boiling of the proverbial frog in the pot of water. In the 1920s it was still just a small group and generally the few in at that time had more freedom.

    It would be an interesting research project, though, to see what the 1920's literature had to say about alcohol and prohibition.

  • Earnest
    Earnest

    In the article "The Higher Powers" in The Watchtower of June 1, 1929, it states (p. 164) :

    9. If a worldly government can enact a law forbidding the use of certain drinks, that nation or government can also enact a law, and enforce it, forbidding the use of certain foods, even including bread. Jesus directed his followers to pray to God: "Give us this day our daily bread." Would God delegate to a nation or government a power that would permit that nation to make and enforce a law forbidding the use of the very thing for which the children of God were directed to pray? If it is lawful to drink beer while eating cheese in Germany, and unlawful to drink beer while eating cheese in the United States, which one of these nations is exercising the power delegated by the Lord? If the answer be, Both, then the question is properly asked: Is God declaring that the doing of a certain act is right in one part of the earth and wrong in another part of the earth?

    11. Is it not therefore clear that there has been a decidedly improper application of the words of the Apostle Paul when applied to the governments of this world? When he says, "The powers that be are ordained of God," does he have any reference whatsoever to the Gentile nations of the earth ? Is it not more reasonable that he directs his words exclusively to the powers possessed and exercised in God’s organization, and not to those that are exercised in Satan’s organization ?

    On this basis it seems that they did not consider that the laws of Prohibition applied to them.


  • nowwhat?
    nowwhat?

    Yes disfellowshipping wasn't enacted until around 1951. Prior to that they condemned the Catholic church for their "Unscriptural" excomunnication practice!

  • Earnest
    Earnest

    FFGhost : There really wasn't any sort of "enforcement mechanism" for undesired behavior until well into the reign of Pappy Knorr.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses—Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom, pp. 186-187 says :

    As early as 1904, in the book The New Creation, attention was given to the need to take appropriate action so as not to allow a demoralizing of the congregation. The understanding that the Bible Students then had of the procedure for dealing with wrongdoers as outlined at Matthew 18:15-17 was discussed. In harmony with this, there were, on rare occasions, 'church trials' in which the evidence of wrongdoing in serious cases was presented to the entire congregation. Years later, The Watchtower, in its issue of May 15, 1944, reviewed the matter in the light of the entire Bible and showed that such matters affecting the congregation should be handled by responsible brothers charged with congregation oversight. ( 1 Cor. 5 : 1-13; compare Deuteronomy 21 : 18-21. )

    The New Creation (1904) (Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 6), p.289 says :

    [After discussing the application of Matthew 18:15-17] ... if the transgressor refuse to hear (obey) the decision of the entire Church, no punishment is to be inflicted or even attempted. What then? Merely the Church is to withdraw from him its fellowship and any and all signs or manifestations of brotherhood. Thenceforth the offender is to be treated ʺas a heathen man and a publican."

  • Davros
    Davros

    Thank you for the research. Very informative.

    So, with that reasoning, I wonder if they will take the same stance if cannabis ever gets legalized on a federal level in the US. I would imagine them taking a stand against smoking it, but I wonder if they will forbid ingesting legal cannabis for recreational use.

  • FFGhost
    FFGhost

    Earnest,

    Thanks!

    I wonder if there is documentation or history of any actual early Bible Student "church trials".

    The Proclaimers book mentions "on rare occasions" - how rare? Was there an "official" procedure that was to be followed? Who made the final determination?

    What happened if the person was found "guilty"? The New Creation book mentions "withdrawing fellowship", but what did that mean in practice? Everyone, including family? Did "fellowship" mean within the walls of the meeting place, or outside it as well? What was the procedure for one found guilty to be "restored"?

    I would imagine that "rare occasions" indicates vanishingly rare, but I'd love to see documentation (if any exists).

    I'd bet it does exist in some dusty, forgotten corner of the Bethel archives.

  • Earnest
    Earnest

    Since the Watchtower article of 1929 the understanding of "the powers ordained of God" has changed (in 1962) to apply to the governments of this world. So, if the prohibition of alcohol were to occur today Jehovah's Witnesses would have a different view and (officially) obey it.

    This doesn't really answer your question about ingesting legal cannabis for recreational use but their current view of using snuff (which does not differentiate from smoking tobacco) suggests it would be forbidden. The book Shepherd the Flock of God, April 2020, says:

    However,a judicial committee is required for a practice of abusing addictive drugs, including betelnut, marijuana, and tobacco. (2 Cor. 7:1; w06 7/15 pp.30-31; lvs pp.110-117)


  • FFGhost
    FFGhost
    I wonder if they will forbid ingesting legal cannabis for recreational use.

    The latest elders' manual (12:15.4) specifically mentions "...a practice of abusing addictive drugs, including betel nut, marijuana, and tobacco" as a disfellowshipping level offense.

    It then goes on to mention that an exception may be granted for cases where a "medical doctor authorizes and/or prescribes marijuana for a medical problem".

    I can see a lucrative business opportunity for an unscrupulous MD to "authorize" the use of "medical marijuana" for JWs. Requests from kids of wealthy elders alone would be enough to allow him to buy a 50 meter yacht and dock it in Monaco.


  • Earnest
    Earnest

    There is a chapter in The New Creation (1904) (Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 6) entitled Order and Discipline in the New Creation (Study VI, pp.273 - 347) which can be read in full here. The information below comes from that chapter, particularly the section Discipline in the Ecclesia (pp.289-293).

    FFGhost : Was there an "official" procedure that was to be followed?

    If one appears to be in error or in sin, his supposed wrong should be pointed out to the erring one only by the one he has injured, or by the member first discovering the wrong. If the reproved one fails to clear himself, and continues in the error or sin, then two or three brethren without previous prejudice should be asked to hear the matter and advise the disputants. (Elders they may or may not be, but their eldership would add no force or authority in the case except as their judgment might be the riper and their influence the more potent.) If this committee decide unanimously with either party, the other should acquiesce and the matter be wholly at an end--correction, or restitution, so far as possible, being promptly made. If either of the original disputants still persists in the wrong course, the one who made the original charge or one of those called in committee or, preferably, all of these together, may then (but not sooner) exercise their privilege of bringing the matter before the Ecclesia, the body, the Church. Thus it is evident that the Elders were in no sense to be judges of the members--hearing and judgment were left to the local body, or Church. The two preliminary steps (above mentioned) having been taken, the facts being certified to the elders, it would be their duty to call a general meeting of the Ecclesia, or consecrated body, as a court--to hear the case in all of its particulars, and in the name and reverence of its Head to render a decision. And the matter should be so clear, and the condemned should have such generous treatment, that the decision would be a unanimous one, or nearly so. Thus the peace and oneness of the body (the Ecclesia) would be preserved. Repentance even up to the moment of the Churchʹs condemnation is possible. Nay, to secure repentance and reform is the very object of every step of these proceedings--to reclaim the transgressor; his punishment not at all the object. Punishment is not ours but Godʹs: ʺVengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord.ʺ (`Rom. 12:19`) Should the wrongdoer repent at any step in this proceeding, it should be a cause of thanksgiving and rejoicing to all who possess the Lordʹs Spirit, and no others are members of his body. `Rom. 8:9` Indeed, even if the transgressor refuse to hear (obey) the decision of the entire Church, no punishment is to be inflicted or even attempted. What then? Merely the Church is to withdraw from him its fellowship and any and all signs or manifestations of brotherhood. Thenceforth the offender is to be treated ʺas a heathen man and a publican.ʺ `Matt. 18:17`

    FFGhost : Who made the final determination?

    Thus it is evident that the Elders were in no sense to be judges of the members--hearing and judgment were left to the local body, or Church.

    FFGhost : What happened if the person was found "guilty"? The New Creation book mentions "withdrawing fellowship", but what did that mean in practice? Everyone, including family? Did "fellowship" mean within the walls of the meeting place, or outside it as well?

    There was a distinction between those who commit a sin that incurs death (1 John 5:16) and other sins. In the case of the "sin that incurs death" :

    We are not to judge of any by what is in their hearts, for we cannot read their hearts; but if they commit wilful sin unto death it will surely become manifest outwardly--by their lips, if they are doctrinal transgressions, denying the precious blood of atonement; or by their immoralities, if they have turned to walk after the flesh, ʺlike the sow that is washed, to her wallowing in the mire.ʺ It is respecting such as these, referred to in `Heb. 6:4-8; 10:26-31`, that the Apostle warns us to have no dealings whatever--not to eat with them, not to receive them into our houses, and not to bid them Godspeed (`2 John 9-11`); because those who would affiliate with them or bid them Godspeed would be accounted as taking their places as enemies of God, and as partaking of the evil deeds or evil doctrines, as the case might be.

    In the case of other sins :

    He should not be passed by on the street unnoticed by the brethren, but be treated courteously. The exclusion should be merely from the privileges of the assembly and from any special brotherly associations, etc., peculiar to the faithful. This is implied also in our Lordʹs words, ʺLet him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.ʺ Our Lord did not mean that we should do injury to a heathen man or a publican, nor treat either in any manner unkindly; but merely that we should not fellowship such as brethren, nor seek their confidences, nor as New Creatures give them ours. The household of faith is to be cemented and bound together with mutual love and sympathy, and expressions of these in various ways. It is from the lack of these privileges and blessings that the excluded brother is caused to suffer, until he feels that he must reform his ways and return to the family gathering. There is a suggestion in this respect to warmth, to cordiality, to true brotherliness, that should prevail amongst those who are members of the Lordʹs body.

    FFGhost : What was the procedure for one found guilty to be "restored"?

    It is not within the power of the Church to exclude permanently. The brother who, having offended either a brother member or the whole Church body, returns again and says, ʺI repent of my wrong course, and promise my best endeavors to do right in the future,ʺ or the equivalent of this, is to be forgiven-- fully, freely--as heartily as we hope the Lord will forgive the trespasses of all.

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