Things That Can't Be Reconciled by a Loving God

by Black Man 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    From Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov:

    Listen! I took the case of children only to make my case clearer. Of the other tears of humanity with which the earth is soaked from its crust to its centre, I will say nothing. I have narrowed my subject on purpose. I am a bug, and I recognise in all humility that I cannot understand why the world is arranged as it is. Men are themselves to blame, I suppose; they were given paradise, they wanted freedom, and stole fire from heaven, though they knew they would become unhappy, so there is no need to pity them. With my pitiful, earthly, Euclidian understanding, all I know is that there is suffering and that there are none guilty; that cause follows effect, simply and directly; that everything flows and finds its level- but that's only Euclidian nonsense, I know that, and I can't consent to live by it! What comfort is it to me that there are none guilty and that cause follows effect simply and directly, and that I know it?- I must have justice, or I will destroy myself. And not justice in some remote infinite time and space, but here on earth, and that I could see myself. I have believed in it. I want to see it, and if I am dead by then, let me rise again, for if it all happens without me, it will be too unfair. Surely I haven't suffered simply that I, my crimes and my sufferings, may manure the soil of the future harmony for somebody else. I want to see with my own eyes the hind lie down with the lion and the victim rise up and embrace his murderer. I want to be there when everyone suddenly understands what it has all been for. All the religions of the world are built on this longing, and I am a believer. But then there are the children, and what am I to do about them? That's a question I can't answer. For the hundredth time I repeat, there are numbers of questions, but I've only taken the children, because in their case what I mean is so unanswerably clear. Listen! If all must suffer to pay for the eternal harmony, what have children to do with it, tell me, please? It's beyond all comprehension why they should suffer, and why they should pay for the harmony. Why should they, too, furnish material to enrich the soil for the harmony of the future? I understand solidarity in sin among men. I understand solidarity in retribution, too; but there can be no such solidarity with children. And if it is really true that they must share responsibility for all their fathers' crimes, such a truth is not of this world and is beyond my comprehension. Some jester will say, perhaps, that the child would have grown up and have sinned, but you see he didn't grow up, he was torn to pieces by the dogs, at eight years old. Oh, Alyosha, I am not blaspheming! I understand, of course, what an upheaval of the universe it will be when everything in heaven and earth blends in one hymn of praise and everything that lives and has lived cries aloud: 'Thou art just, O Lord, for Thy ways are revealed.' When the mother embraces the fiend who threw her child to the dogs, and all three cry aloud with tears, 'Thou art just, O Lord!' then, of course, the crown of knowledge will be reached and all will be made clear. But what pulls me up here is that I can't accept that harmony. And while I am on earth, I make haste to take my own measures. You see, Alyosha, perhaps it really may happen that if I live to that moment, or rise again to see it, I, too, perhaps, may cry aloud with the rest, looking at the mother embracing the child's torturer, 'Thou art just, O Lord!' but I don't want to cry aloud then. While there is still time, I hasten to protect myself, and so I renounce the higher harmony altogether. It's not worth the tears of that one tortured child who beat itself on the breast with its little fist and prayed in its stinking outhouse, with its unexpiated tears to 'dear, kind God'! It's not worth it, because those tears are unatoned for. They must be atoned for, or there can be no harmony. But how? How are you going to atone for them? Is it possible? By their being avenged? But what do I care for avenging them? What do I care for a hell for oppressors? What good can hell do, since those children have already been tortured? And what becomes of harmony, if there is hell? I want to forgive. I want to embrace. I don't want more suffering. And if the sufferings of children go to swell the sum of sufferings which was necessary to pay for truth, then I protest that the truth is not worth such a price. I don't want the mother to embrace the oppressor who threw her son to the dogs! She dare not forgive him! Let her forgive him for herself, if she will, let her forgive the torturer for the immeasurable suffering of her mother's heart. But the sufferings of her tortured child she has no right to forgive; she dare not forgive the torturer, even if the child were to forgive him! And if that is so, if they dare not forgive, what becomes of harmony? Is there in the whole world a being who would have the right to forgive and could forgive? I don't want harmony. From love for humanity I don't want it. I would rather be left with the unavenged suffering. I would rather remain with my unavenged suffering and unsatisfied indignation, even if I were wrong. Besides, too high a price is asked for harmony; it's beyond our means to pay so much to enter on it. And so I hasten to give back my entrance ticket, and if I am an honest man I am bound to give it back as soon as possible. And that I am doing. It's not God that I don't accept, Alyosha, only I most respectfully return him the ticket."
  • belbab
    belbab

    Black Man,

    After reading your understandable bitch list against God, methinks that you have spent too much time sitting in windowless, featureless Kingdom Halls and soaking up future futile promises and vocalizing emotionless dirges. Or maybe it was in the dungeons of Bedlam, Brooklyn.

    Does Satan really have carte blanche over all the earth? Does he have carte blanche over your life?

    In a book I was reading a couple of days ago, it pointed out that "Satan" has disappeared from the vocabulary of modern man. Who gives him existance in our times? Who personifies evil in our day? Who says "Wait on Jehovah?" and does nothing to alleviate, and turn away evil in our day?

    Recently, on the news, it was the twenty-fifth anniversary since a woman riding on a bus refused to give her seat over to a white man. Did she give Satan carte blanche over her life?

    In your post you use the words, choosing, allowing, choosing allowing and attribute them to God. Did he not give us the right to choose, and make allowances? Has he not given us the choice of resisting evil, and choose the good.?

    In considering your list I can think of innumerable instances where people risked and gave up their lives, combatting the atrocious situations you list.

    Number 10, Kingdom Melodies, Sing me some blues, man, sing me some blues.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Many of us can not reconcile a loving God who watches over us, and the existence of these atrocious things.

    Is there another way to view besides duality? Another way to perceive outside the perspective of an us-who-suffer and a God-out-there who does nothing? Is there vision that can bring true peace and resolution to this seeming dilemma? Is there understanding and realization that can meld all the broken fragments into a harmonious whole?

    Are we wiling to step outside the box of everything we have ever been taught or believe to be? Are we wiling to be completely naked of identity and thought, and enter into the silent depths of Being to see if there is a reality and actuality that has been missed? An awakening which brings it all into perspective yet retains the endless magic and wonder, love and beauty?

    In other words: have we investigated into our own self and identity before we spend lifetimes questioning what we believe to be, or not be, out there? Could it be we get no significant reconciliation because we have never taken the first real step?

    j

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    narkissos,

    yep, that's the one! brilliant quote...

    James,

    that's a good point...


    i have another thing to add to the list of things that cannot be reconciled by a loving God:

    Me.

    TS

  • Golf
    Golf

    Belbab, that was good. My question is, "Is it really about us?"


    Golf

  • trevor
    trevor
    Many of us can not reconcile a loving God who watches over us, and the existence of these atrocious things.

    Is there another way to view besides duality? Another way to perceive outside the perspective of an us-who-suffer and a God-out-there who does nothing? Is there vision that can bring true peace and resolution to this seeming dilemma? Is there understanding and realization that can meld all the broken fragments into a harmonious whole?

    Are we wiling to step outside the box of everything we have ever been taught or believe to be? Are we wiling to be completely naked of identity and thought, and enter into the silent depths of Being to see if there is a reality and actuality that has been missed? An awakening which brings it all into perspective yet retains the endless magic and wonder, love and beauty?

    In other words: have we investigated into our own self and identity before we spend lifetimes questioning what we believe to be, or not be, out there? Could it be we get no significant reconciliation because we have never taken the first real step?

    j

    Some things are worth repeating!

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