How Would You Prove That JW's Do Not Have The Truth?

by minimus 29 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Hamas

  I would show them the following :

  1)

  Watchtower 1972 April 1 p.197 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'

  People today can view the creative works. They have at hand the Bible, but it is little read or understood. So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?

  IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET

  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record.

  ....... So It's offical ! Jehovah has a prophet !

  2)

  Watchtower 1959 January 15 pp.39-41 Down with the Old-Up with the New!

  Whom has God actually used as his prophet?
  By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah's witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. ... It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths...

  ...... Show them that Jehovah has touched their lips with HIS words

  3)

  Awake! 1993 March 22 pp.3-4 Why So Many False Alarms?
  

  Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions 'in the name of Jehovah.' Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah

  .... Show them how they lie to us

  Once they can see the lies of the so called Faithful Slave, and their faith in it is rocked, show them the rest of the story.

  http://www.escapethewatchtower.com/Is_Watchtower_truth.htm
• 

  Hamas

  Or simply ask :

  'Truth ? What is truth? Who knows what is truth? '

  If you really can't be bothered to argue
• 

  Swan

  I think since they claim to have the truth, the burden of proof should be upon them.

  Also, after 130 years they have only convinced 6 million people that they do. Many of these were convinced due to circumstances of birth. This is a very poor record. When you consider this, they haven't done a very good job of it, have they?

  Tammy
• 

  jws

  I personally would attack their date prophecies.

  I have also tried to argue about that notion of truth that was posted a few posts above. I brought up things such as the fact that they believe you must believe everything they teach and that it is considered "accurate knowledge". Yet a person living in the 1930's would be disfellowshipped or labeled an apostate if he were alive today and believed the exact same teachings as he did in 1930. Yet he firmly believed he had the truth and if you had tried to tell him back then what you believe today, he would reject you. You'd be considered an apostate. Yet you now accept he was wrong - bringing up the possibility that what they teach now could also be wrong. And maybe that person went to his grave with these false beliefs. If "accurate knowledge" is so important, then he obviously isn't going to be resurrected because his knowledge of God was flawed. That also leads to discussions about the light getting brighter. What sense does that make? So, God decided you needed to believe an untruth because you couldn't handle the truth yet? It had to be slowly revealed? Is that true of new members also? Should they first start out believing Jesus came visibly in 1914, then slowly, after a few years, you tell them Jesus came, but invisibly, then that the generation is not 70 or 80 years? Do you reveal it all to them slowly so they can "handle it"? Of course not and God wouldn't want us to believe anything but the truth. You can also ask about people who believed something different about the generation thing before they officially changed positions. (Assuming their current interpretions are correct), this person would have been in sync with God before the Society. Ask whether they think he's an apostate for knowing what is now the "truth" before the Society. So there is the possibility that somebody else has a truth that the Society hasn't accepted yet? And by following the Society, you continue to believe a falshood.

  Also, if teachings have changed so dramatically, how could Jesus have chosen this organization that was teaching so many false things as his faithful slave?
• 

  JH

  I think that the answer is simple. Jesus said that LOVE would be the sign of the true religion.

  Love isn't more present in the JW's than elsewhere.

  On the other hand JW's shun while other religions don't.

  So the sign Jesus gave isn't really present in the JW's.
• 

  rocketman

  Hamas, what you posted shows indeed that they claim to be a prophet. They might make the claim that they make in the '93 Awake, but the fact is, by saying that they are Jehovah's mouthpiece, they are indeed saying, in effect, that "these are the words of Jehovah."
• 

  blondie

  I think since they claim to have the truth, the burden of proof should be upon them.

  I agree with Tammy. Let them pick what they think is important and rebut them. It is easier than trying to pick among the gamut of JW doctrine/dogma/policy. So many JWs have their own personal twist on things.

  One clue that you preaching to a deaf audience, as you start to establish your point scripturally, they will race off to the next point. Then it is "pearls before swine" time. Time to take your pearls home and let the swine wallow.

  Blondie
• 

  minimus

  Excellent comments!!! I think your reasoning is so sound, it is indisputable.
• 

  Introspection

  These days I think I would question the mind itself, how do you know any belief is true? I'd say they'd have to prove to me how anything they claim is not just their idea of what is true rather than the actual truth. The truth is, what you have is just a person who happens to be a Jehovah's Witness that thinks they 'have' the truth. What they have is just some thoughts they think is true, the thought that their thinking is the truth is yet just another thought. Then maybe I'll ask: "What have you got besides a bunch of thoughts that you think is right?" Sure they'll be more interested in what those thoughts are about, but lets get down to the nature of what they're tossing around here..
• 

  jgnat

  Blondie, I like your "deaf audience" rule of thumb. I might just use that from now on.

  Eric, this has been the best summary I have seen of the JW "truth".

  Of course, the way JW's use the word, it simply a learned verbal shorthand for, "We have true faith, we have true belief." And THAT is often not something which is possible to open up and understand through debate, facts, or even, oddly enough, truth.

  That is dead-on. My honey breaks in to the "I have the truth" mantra every time I seriously challenge his beliefs. It is as if he believes saying it often enough will ward off those horrible doubts, like demons, slashing away at his faith.