Earnest, thanks for sharing that quote. My memory is not always so reliable. I noticed on the WT website they revised the 1978 brochure in 1979. I don't see the text to either available to compare. Not really important just curious if I'm just not doing something right.
Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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peacefulpete
Some years ago I shared a personal story of how I shared the WT/Awake reference to the Romans 2:15,16 passage with some friends and was hauled in the back room for apostate ideas. I explained how I and one of the elders found it in the first version of the electronic index but when they tried to find it the CD and new index no longer had the reference. I was told it probably was a Ray Franz idea.
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Earnest
Vanderhoven, perhaps I was being pedantic but I was trying to answer your question. It is not a relationship with the "Governing Body" that is required, but to support the Christian congregation (Christ's anointed "brothers"). It may be argued that you cannot support the Christian congregation without supporting the "Governing Body", and that may be true although I do not hold to that view. But I don't read anywhere in the publications that we need to have a relationship with the "Governing Body", only with the Christian congregation (Christ's anointed "brothers").
But since this teaching is analogous to the requirement of baptism (the antitypical ark), perhaps it is worth addressing the question about what happens to those who do not have a Christian baptism.
Vanderhoven7 : Where does the GB stipulate that ex-Jehovah Witnesses who are honest-hearted apostates to Jehovah's organization may survive Armageddon?
No doubt the GB considers "honest-hearted apostate" to be an oxymoron, so the literature only goes so far as to say God has committed judgment into Jesus’ hands, not ours. But perhaps I should mention I had my tongue firmly in cheek when I excepted the members of JWD from a free pass.
peacefulpete : I noticed on the WT website they revised the 1978 brochure in 1979.
Yes. They read slightly differently :
1978
No. Many millions that have lived in centuries past, who were not Jehovah’s Witnesses, will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before the “great tribulation,” and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus admonished that we should not be judging one another. We tend to look on the outward appearance; God looks on the heart. He is the one who sees accurately and judges mercifully. He has committed judgment into the hands of Christ Jesus, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5.
1979
No. Many millions that have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah’s Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before the “great tribulation,” and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. He has committed judgment into Jesus’ hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; 24:21.
You can find it online at the link I provided - JW in the 20th century, 1979, p.29. I don't think the 1978 version is online.
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Vanderhoven7
The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are experts at judging people. They have determined that all of the churches of Christendom are filled with non Christians.
Of the millions of martyrs who were slaughtered before the 20th century, they have concluded that less than 145,000 were real Christians. The others were merely professed Christians.
The self-declared Faithful Slave has similarly judged that of those billions living when Armageddon strikes, 99.9% of them will be annihilatied.
How would they know any of this?
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pokertopia
The Armageddon War does not exist.
The existence of God is not a matter of proof, but of perception, and proof is something that can never be done.
This is an invariant axiom while existence lasts.
If it is logically proven that God exists, we will have no freedom, no force left, and no choice, like animals and robots. Humans have freedom, choice, and development follows because they do not know that God exists.
But if the Armageddon war reveals God's power, it will be like proving oneself objectively. This is not possible because it violates the axiom of never knowing the existence of God.
Moreover, Spinoza says that the idea of doing good and avoiding evil due to fear does not follow reason.
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Linda14
Please who is Sergio, and where in the website can we find this reply of his?
I am lost.
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Vanderhoven7
You have a pm Linda concerning Sergio Saavedra a Spanish speaking JW apologist.
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Fisherman
"for survival ... they have to remain organized with the anointed remnant, the 'chosen ones'
That applies to JW. JW teaches a blanket protection to JW as a group. Individual JW that don’t follow direction may get trapped inside the encirclement of the “Roman armies.” That is one aspect of survival that applies to JW. Of course, non JW that do not have that spiritual protection that comes from following direction ( according to JW) are in the same danger zone. So, JW believe that there is a divine protection over those that are JW. How everything actually plays out, JW don’t say they know. What JW assert, is that in a blanket sort of way, JW is the road to life.
It was once believed that the preaching work separated the sheep and goats and that made a lot of sense if the preaching work had any relevance towards salvation. One material for judgement was the response to the good news.
Now, the preaching work has the same value but the separation and judgement is later on.
Also have to factor in JW belief that BTG will be destroyed and there will be a vindication of JW religion. Fighters against JW = fighting God’s holy spirit ( as jw see it) and those found fighters won’t be saved. So pretty much people that reject and fight JW won’t be saved. But there are other people that fall into special situations and God is the judge of that. Ultimately God is the final judge. Pharisees in JC day were thrown into Gehenna only for “wicked” speech according to Jesus. So the same judgement can be expected at Armageddon.
Again , all this is interpretation. And we @JW believe, and it makes a lot of sense but as the article admitted: We just don’t know who will individually
survive Armageddon . JW do assert and believe and proclaim that JW as a group will survive.There seems to be a distinction between Armageddon and Judgement day. I suppose that Armageddon encompasses judgement of the living but it ain’t over until after the Millennium.
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wozza
They do speak two different stories ,we would hedge around this issue when we called on people.
"Observe, however, that Jesus did not leave it up to humans to determine who are the "sheep" and who are the "goats." How fine that is! For, if we humans were responsible to judge, how could we properly evaluate factors such as: How much of an opportunity did a person have to hear and accept the good news?"
And yet that is the very thing that happens ,we were taught to only view ourselves in the WTS that would get saved !
What about the ark and the city of refuge etc ,no room for hope for those outside ,what hypocrites.
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Fisherman
What about the ark and the city of refuge etc
There was only one Ark. Cities of refuge were also numbered. The provision for salvation came from God not a la carte. Only one way from God to delegated authority. Everyone had to submit to that way of doing things.