Do All Baptism Questions Have to be Answered Correctly in Order to Qualify?

by Scully 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Scully

  I'm curious about this, because it was fairly apparent that some newly baptized people didn't have a good grasp of a lot of the doctrinal points of JWs. Mind you, doctrinal points vascillate quite a lot, so that's no surprise really, but you would think that the basics would be covered prior to allowing people to get baptized, wouldn't you?

  For instance, my brother-in-law's girlfriend didn't understand the ramifications of the blood doctrine when she got baptized (they wanted to get married in the KH, and unless she was baptized they wouldn't be allowed to do so). My husband admitted to not understanding many doctrines prior to baptism as well. So did both of my brothers-in-law.

  How is it that a religion that claims to pride itself on "teaching people The Truth™" would go ahead and baptize people who do not understand what it is exactly that they are getting into? How is it that a religion that prides itself on providing Accurate Knowledge™ to people would permit anyone to get baptized who could not explain the basic tenets of their faith? If a person knowingly submits to baptism without understanding what they are committing to or the basis for the doctrines that they will be expected to teach others, are their baptisms valid? Worse than that, to get baptized knowing that you don't understand the doctrines and beliefs - isn't that dishonest?? isn't it fraudulent?

  How often does this happen? Do you have any examples similar to the ones I mentioned?

  Curious to hear what others are thinking about this subject.

  Love, Scully
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  IslandWoman

  Hi Scully,

  How is it that a religion that claims to pride itself on "teaching people The Truth™" would go ahead and baptize people who do not understand what it is exactly that they are getting into? How is it that a religion that prides itself on providing Accurate Knowledge™ to people would permit anyone to get baptized who could not explain the basic tenets of their faith?

  The one conducting the study is responsible for making sure their student understands what is involved. In addition the person being studied with is encouraged and even required to attend the meetings, go in field service and do what they can to advance their understanding of the Bible and their responsibilities as Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Some make a great effort to learn everything they can, others may not. Either way, how can the "religion" be held at fault? Insight Volumes, Watchtower Volumes, Reasoning book, Blood and Trinity brochures etc. are made available to those who want them. If they don't read they cannot be made to read.

  Now, if the study conductor is negligent that is another matter but the negligence, imo, cannot be blamed on the "religion" itself.

  IW
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  Simon

  I think the only questions that really need answering are the ones the elders ask themselves:

  • Will this person cause us any trouble?
  • Will they do as we say?
  • Will they go selling distributing our literature?
  • Will they contribute money to the preaching work?
  • Will they be a means of ensnaring others (like their family)?

  If the answer to one or more of these questions is "yes" then that's probably enough. You can be as ropey as you want on the doctrine - who cares, it will all have changed next assembly anyway !
• 

  teenyuck

  I was 12 or 13 when I was baptized. I studied with Brother Hugo...Something or Other. He grilled me and I tried to answer correctly. It was 1974 and I did not want to miss out when armageddon hit.

  He took all my answers, good and bad, and said I was fit spiritually. What a crock.

  I did not have a clue (still don't-)
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  Scully

  Island Woman:

  Now, if the study conductor is negligent that is another matter but the negligence, imo, cannot be blamed on the "religion" itself.

  Well, the thing is this: The JWs make a BIG DEAL out of their baptismal procedure being so much superior to that of other churches. They require that you study with one of their ministers for a minimum of six months to a year in order to have a basic understanding of the doctrines. They make you go through a process of answering 120+ questions in order to "qualify" for baptism. This is done under the auspices of the elders of the congregation. The impression one gets is that this is a "test" of sorts that one can "pass" and therefore qualify for baptism, or "fail" and have to go back to the books and try again at a later time.

  If it's just a show, or a matter of going through the motions, without actually knowing what they are agreeing to, it could be a case of a person's baptism being invalid (best case scenario if they want out later), or it's just one more example of blatant hypocrisy in the organization.

  Seriously, if they are baptizing 6 and 8 year olds, do those BABIES really have the kind of understanding of doctrine to teach other people The Truth™? Are they capable of making what is clearly an ADULT decision?

  Love, Scully
• 

  IslandWoman

  Hi Scully,

  If it's just a show, or a matter of going through the motions, without actually knowing what they are agreeing to, it could be a case of a person's baptism being invalid (best case scenario if they want out later), or it's just one more example of blatant hypocrisy in the organization.

  The prospective publisher is well aware of the questions that will be asked. When they become unbaptized publishers they are given a copy of the Organization book, the baptismal questions are located in the back of that book. They have the opportunity to review the questions that will be asked and the scriptures supporting the Watchtower's teachings on each question. Again, the extent of their understanding rests on whether or not their Bible study conductor (or parent) and the student themselves have put sufficient effort into learning the Society's teachings.

  The elder reviewing the questions is not there as a strict tester, at least not with the experiences we have had. The brother who went over the questions with a member of my family, asked the questions then after the answer was given added explanatory information or asked his own side questions.

  Seriously, if they are baptizing 6 and 8 year olds, do those BABIES really have the kind of understanding of doctrine to teach other people The Truth™? Are they capable of making what is clearly an ADULT decision?

  Six and eight year olds have parents. It is the responsibility of the parents to make sure their child understands. If the child's parent is not involved than the child's Bible study conductor is responsible for making sure the child understands.

  My point is, the Watchtower provides the materials, procedures and requirements by which the prospective publisher should be trained and informed. The fact that the Bible study conductor, the student or the elder asking the questions may not follow the guidance provided is something which is not the fault of the Watchtower.

  IW
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  minimus

  I can answer this question. If a person couldn't understand what happens at death or what god's name is, they USUALLY didn't get baptized. However, almost every person I went over questions, could not, per the Society, correctly idenify the "faithful and discreet slave". Yet any that did not understand this basic tenet of belief were still allowed baptism. I remember going over questions with a person that got nearly every one wrong.The other elders said she did alright with them and must have been nervous or intimidated by me. She subsequently got baptized and quickly left the "truth" 3 months later.
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  IslandWoman

  Minimus,

  However, almost every person I went over questions, could not, per the Society, correctly idenify the "faithful and discreet slave". Yet any that did not understand this basic tenet of belief were still allowed baptism

  Did you try to explain it or did you ask side questions in order to help them understand, before they got baptized? If almost every person you went over the questions with missed this point did you attempt to encourage those who were conducting Bible studies to make sure their students are understanding this correctly?

  Just wondering.

  IW
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  Prisca

  When I was a teenager, a girl I grew up with in the cong was going through the questions for baptism. She told me that she had got a few wrong, but the elder who was going through the last set of questions with her, told her that it wasn't a knowledge test, it was more to see what her heart condition was. So she was allowed to get baptised.
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  minimus

  IW, I gave them the Society's corrected answer. In most cases, the persons still did not understand how the Society got to their conclusion, scripturally. But, I've heard elders say that they couldn't adequately explain it either.