A Common Mistake

DJ

As a jw, I was taught the wrong idea of what the trinity is. The concept of the trinity DOES NOT teach that the Father is the Son.

SpannerintheWorks

I don't even think the dumbest of Dubs would think that the Father was the Son!!!

Spanner

I've always heard the trinity being explained as the father ,son and holy ghost being all the same . To believe the trinity you have to believe the word holy spirit is interpreted as holy ghost and is a third spirit and not just Gods active force. Trinitarians often claim that jesus was indeed God almighty and not merely a servant of God almighty of which you have to discount a large part of the new testament to conclude this.

DJ

Spanner,

I take it that you have never heard a jw ask..."Was Jesus praying to Himself?" That is very common.

Heathen,

One doesn't have to use holy "ghost"...that is silly. This "active force" is a made up phrase that is not in the Hebrew or Greek but the Jw's have put active force in Genesis where the Holy Spirit should be. Also, consider that fact that Jesus said that He would send "another" helper and referred to the Hoy Spirit as "He" and "Him". The use of personal pronouns make the force teaching deny what Christ taught. Christ is almighty. How else can He hold the world with His power?

heathen

DJ-- If that is true about the holy spirit actually being jesus than how can people be filled with it ? God claims to have a home in heaven and not be omnipresent only to have the ability to see all and know all as well as all powerful. Most times that I've seen drawings and such that depict the trinity they usually show a 3 faced deity not a one faced . The way I see it is that jesus was granted all authority over heaven and earth from higher up due to his obedience in proving satan a liar. I think peopel get confused due to the baptismal ceremony that includes the father son and holy spirit .There are other scriptures that make it confusing such as when jesus said he that has seen me has also seen the father .The belief in a trinity was actually started by pagan culture as in the old testament states that jehovah is one jehovah.

outnfree

Trinity debates usually end up with a draw, imo.

DJ,

There are those who would posit that the "he" and "him" references to the holy spirit are not personalizations at all. In many languages, nouns have a gender, and the gender of the word "spirit" in Greek is masculine. Therefore, "he" and "him" might properly be translated "it."

It's just another of the unwinnable arguments on either side, because the real meaning is ambiguous.

And yes, I DO remember JW's asking "Was Jesus praying to Himself????!!" In a strict sense, he was, if all persons in the one Godhead are co-eternal and uncreated. And while I would agree that the Son is NOT the Father or vice versa according to Trinitarian teaching, isn't that one in essence but not in personhood stuff rather difficult to comprehend?

outnfree

DJ

Heathen,

The word in Hebrew for "one" that is used has the meaning of one as in a "cluster" of grapes. I didn't say that the holy spirit is the same entity as Jesus. That is my point. The trinity began with the early church fathers who were trying to teach the people what the bible taught because there were many false teachers called Arians who were teaching Christ as a created being.

Outnfree,

The Son can pray to the Father as well as the Father can speak to the Son in Hebrews1 and claim that Jesus is the creator. The Father clains to be the creator ALONE in Isaiah. They are separate yet one. There are not 2 Firsts and Lasts. The Holy Spirit could come until Christ left the earth. How can a force be lied to or grieved?

StinkyPantz

Trinity debates usually end up with a draw

Though this is true, it never stops anyone from debating it.

rocketman

Such debates are like the evolution - creation debate; they can indeed go on and on. Intriguing topics, but it's hard to come to definite conclusions on both, at least for many people.

DJ

I agree to some extent rocketman. I used to not believe the trinity concept wholeheartedly.I admit though that I based my decision on the all familiar jw verses in the NT that seem to discount it. It wasn't until I stopped only looking to the bible for my answers and started to directly ask for the holy spirit to teach me. I had no intention of accepting the trinity at the time. I just wanted to understand what the bible taught in order to discern truth from error. I yielded to the teachings in the spirit and I saw the trinity teaching from Genesis to Rev. I was amazed. I no longer have any doubts about it. Once I had an understanding, then any verse that the jw's threw at me to contradict it seemed plain silly. IMHO, the refusal to accept the concept of the trinity is based on fear and a lack of understanding of the positioning of the Father and the Son.

A Common Mistake

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