Equality of outcome ...

by LoveUniHateExams 20 Replies latest social current

  • LoveUniHateExams

    ... in Pol Pot's Cambodia.

    Image result for pol pot skulls

    The regime freed these people from inequality and an oppressive class system by changing them from being alive to being dead, and so they were all equally dead.

  • truth_b_known

    The number one man-made killer of people is government.

    Fairness is in the eye of the beholder. Freedom is found in the market.

  • Simon

    They were right up there on the "how many millions did you kill" socialism scale.

    But kill enough people and you get a seat at the UN to decide how the world should be run ...

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Freedom is found in the market -

    They were right up there on the "how many millions did you kill" socialism scale - Pol Pot's regime massacred and starved up to 3 million people out of a population of 8-point-something million. So he was responsible for the deaths of about a quarter or a third of his own people ... in 'peace time'.

    But kill enough people and you get a seat at the UN to decide how the world should be run - indeed.

    There's also this thing, equality of outcome, that is being championed by some people today.

    Apparently, Iceland has made it mandatory for firms to close the gender pay gap and work towards a 50-50 working environment - it's now written into Icelandic law.

    Here's the rub: you can't be truly free and have equality of outcome. Sorry, it's one or t' other but it cannot be both.

    And where is the evidence that equality of outcome works or has ever worked? I guess we'll just have to wait and see re Iceland's social experiment.

    But it's all too easy to post examples of equality of outcome not only not working or working badly, but being completely terrible and costing millions upon millions of human lives.

    Equality of outcome, AFAIK, has to be one of the most terrible ideas ever enacted, both in terms of economic disaster and human suffering.

    The evidence sadly shows that pursuing equality of outcome leads to a huge pile of human skulls ...

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Hi everyone!

    So here's a thing, gotta post this ...

    When I was posting my last response in this thread and some recent responses in the Fall Guy's Brexit Rollercoaster thread, I was at my local UCAN Centre (kinda like a public library).

    As I was engaged in this forum, I overheard a conversation between a working-class guy on the computer next to mine and a scruffy-ish, bearded, intelligent-sounding guy who was seated in a chair across the room, reading a paper. The conversation between the two was about Brexit. I ignored it at first, but started to get interested in the discussion because the intelligent, bearded guy was coming off better in the argument. I could recognise the working-class guy's arguments but he wasn't expressing himself well. I could see he was pretty intelligent but he was perhaps not educated to a great degree.

    Both guys were basically nice, although the working-class guy did come off as a bit of a pub bore, sometimes spouting off on subjects that he doesn't really know - I've observed him on previous occasions.

    But this time I could see what he was trying to say and so got involved in the conversation.

    I was pretty calm and controlled. I made my points but tried to establish common ground with the intelligent, bearded, scruffy guy. I basically said to this guy that people ignore democracy at their peril although I tried to make common ground with this guy by saying that I'm ok with a second referendum as long as STAY IN THE EU is left out as an option because that was already decided in the 2016 referendum.

    So, the working-class pub bore leaves and now it's just me and intelligent bearded guy.

    He goes on the seat vacated by the working-class pub bore and, noting my southern accent, asks me how I ended up in Bolton.

    I replied by saying that I'm here because I originally came up here to study biology at the University of Bolton, and have stayed up here since graduation

    He responded by making some disparaging comment about Bolton uni - either it was too small, or insignificant or nobody noticed me studying there, something along those lines.

    I don't think he was being deliberately offensive, indeed I didn't take it that way at the time.

    He told me he studied anthropology at the University of Toronto. This guy seemed to be about the same age as Jordan Peterson, so this guy must've been at Toronto before Peterson's tenure.

    Our conversation drifted into evolution vs creation, stuff like that, and we understandably had much common ground.

    And then the conversation shifted to current political situations and political correctness. XD

    I agreed with him when he said we should fight fascists, as his uncle did in WW2.

    But then I added that it's difficult to identify today's fascists because while there are neo-nazis that should be fought, there are also some people on the left who look and behave like fascists, such as Antifa and radical feminists ... big mistake XD

    Over a short period of time, this guy who knew more about hominid evolution than me started to become, IMO, irrational and unscientific, although still staying 'nice'.

    I agreed with him that a patriarchy exists but that there are other factors at play re things like the gender pay gap and lack of women in STEM - such as freedom of choice and the fact that men and women, on average, behave differently and have different priorities in life.

    Well, when I said this, the look on his face was priceless, as if I'd stood up, pulled down my trousers, and taken a dump on the desk! XD

    His response was to call two random girls dressed in secondary school uniform who were nothing to do with our adult conversation and have them stand in front of us. The two random girls were clearly in secondary school uniform but also clearly prepubescent or on the brink of puberty, so I'd say they were 11 or 12 twelve years old.

    Me and my intellectual sparring partner explained to these girls why they had been called over.

    My bearded sparring partner asked them if they felt oppressed, or if they were encouraged to study whatever they want at school.

    They both said "no" - i.e. they felt discouraged.

    I agreed that they should be encouraged to study whatever they wanted to, but I was starting to 'butt heads' with this guy and became determined to show up his intellectual position for what it was.

    So when he mentioned gender disparity in STEM, I mentioned gender disparity in the UK prison population ... male inmates outnumber female inmates by at least 9 to 1, and what should be done about that.

    As best as I can remember, he didn't have much of an answer so I asked whether the UK prison population was a matter of gender bias or the fact that men, on average, are more aggressive than women and less sensible.

    His lack of any meaningful response prompted me to ask him if he believed that there are ANY differences between men and women on average.

    I tried to establish common ground by stating that, on average, men have greater upper body strength and thus physical strength than women.

    His knee-jerk response "but men and women average more between their own groups"

    My counter "maybe so but male and female averages are stilll different - why do you think male and female athletes are segregated according to gender ... why do you think Novak Djokovic would wipe the floor with Serena Williams?"

    His answer, and I'm not shitting you, I remember it verbatim "because Djokovic is taller" XD

    By this time, I was starting to raise my voice, not out of anger or because I'm some kind of bigot, but because I am passionate about certain issues and because I was starting to doubt my own sanity as I was sinking further down in this quagmire of a conversation. XD

    Jordan Peterson encounters this kinda bullshit on a regular basis in front of TV cameras and manages to conduct himself with dignity, generally speaking.

    If I were in Peterson's shoes I'd be in a padded cell by now! XD

    Thoughts? XD

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    wots XD ?

  • LoveUniHateExams

    @stan livedeath

  • stan livedeath
  • waton
    you get a seat at the UN to decide how the world should be run S

    and can vote in another equal outcome UN "law" , the absolute right to emigrate, immigrate, seek asylum anywhere. objections of the home populations notwithstanding.

    Equal outcome = race to the bottom.

  • Phizzy

    I enjoyed your Post LUHE about your long conversation, interesting to see that though well educated, your "opponent" obviously had not thought things through.

    I think this explains why intelligent well educated people, though few and far between, can still be found in the ranks of the J.W Org.

    They have not thought things through. But when you have people like that, your scruffy friend and intelligent J.W's, how do you cut through their Shield ?

    A personal question for you, but pertinent to the above, did you always have good critical thinking skills, or have these only been awakened by Uni ?

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