CIVILIAN SERVICE

by blondie 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Vidiot

  (following up on my post last page)

  I think it’s why they seem so conflicted about how to proceed.

  Jaracz’s iron-fist-in-a-velvet-glove legacy has gotten the Org in trouble, because ruthless (and especially underhanded) tactics cannot help but undermine the presumption of exclusive divine favor…

  …but…

  …authentic mainstreaming isn’t really feasible either, as the real thing invariably involves - for all intents and purposes - abandoning the presumption of exclusive divine favor.

  Either way, they’re losing their grip on that claim (which should be obvious in retrospect, considering how vocal they seem to have gotten about it in recent years)…

  …because they know - just like us - that at this point, without it, there’s next to no incentive left to even be a JW.
• 

  Terry

  I recently started a Topic on the anniversary of my imprisonment: https://shorturl.at/qwACI
  and discussed the fact that EVEN NOW the Brothers who served time in Federal Prison are NOT AWARE
  of how we were tricked into acting against our own best interests!
  JW's would say: We refused to violate our Neutrality by declining Military Service.
  I would say: NO. You were in prison because you DOUBLE REFUSED:
  1. Military service which you were LEGALLY PERMITTED TO REFUSE
  but you went beyond the scope of the law when you...
  2. REFUSED the Alternate option of community service.
  
  It was for that 2nd refusal we suffered needlessly.
  
  
• 

  raymond frantz

  Which country did you go to prison Terry?
• 

  Terry

  raymond frantz6 hours ago

  Which country did you go to prison Terry?
  ________________________________
  
  The country of TEXAS in Seagoville just outside of Dallas.
• 

  Diogenesister

  It was for that 2nd refusal we suffered needlessly

  For me the absolute worst thing is (if I'm given to understand this correctly) you're penalised for the rest of your life in areas such as employment opportunities?
• 

  TonusOH

  I believe that In the USA, a prior felony conviction must be reported if a prospective employer requests such information. Needless to say, that can be a red flag for any company looking to hire. Best case scenario, they will ask for details and give you the benefit of the doubt. But it gets the process off to a bad start.

  Edit to add: and some employment opportunities may automatically reject any applicant with a prior felony conviction.
• 

  titch

  Folks: To me, the fact that a person was convicted---and spent time in prison----for refusing to be inducted into the Military Service---is NOT a "black mark" on one's record for the rest of their life. And it SHOULD NOT be a bar to employment for the rest of their life. I am not an employer, and never have been one. But, if I was an employer and/or hiring manager, I would not view a person who had refused to be inducted, as a gross, evil, disgusting, despicable person who must be ostracized from society, for all eternity. I would not hold that against them
  

  Now then, a person who has been tried, convicted, and sent to prison for first-degree murder, second-degree murder, manslaughter, bank robbery, grand larceny, armed robbery, home-invasion robbery, air piracy, and so on and so on, etc, etc.---that would be a "black mark" against their life's record. But---refusing induction? No. In my estimation, once they have served their prison sentence, they have paid "their debt" to society. (If you'd call it a "debt.") Oh, well, just my thoughts. What are yours? ------Titch.
  
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  There should be amnesty for every JW that refused alternate service because they were under theocratic duress at the time. The WT leaders should have spent the time in prison, not the rank and file. Many experienced the consequences of putting their trust in men who make up commandments to the detriment of the flock.
• 

  NotFormer

  Vanderhoven, that's a great idea. Amnesty and a pardon for those forced by their religion to reject even civilian service in lieu. How do you lobby Congress or the president to get that sort of thing to happen?
• 

  NotFormer

  I wonder how many Australian JWs did prison for refusal. We were in Vietnam, and we had the draught as well.

  Any Aussie exes who can shed some light?