BS Detector Sounds Alarm
H_S & Saint Satan; I was chewing this one over with my gf last night... good points. But they ignore the half of the Muslim world that are basically secular. In Judaism you have orthodox and reformed movements (plus others), and secularism is not really possible being orthodox, but very possible being reformed.
The secular Muslims on the other hand are, broadly speaking, still orthodox Muslims, of one of the two main strains. It's this kind of opportunity for flexible belief I see arrising.
For all that some parts of the Quran are barbaric, so are some parts of the Bible, although the martial nature of Islam's initial expansion is undeniable.
BUT that same culture STILL made Christian Europe look backward for over five hundred years, so there has to be the possibility of change somewhere.
Thank you for your comments and perhaps you are right - I suppose that Turkey, which is as you know a Secular Muslim state is probably the best example of the fact that some sort of change is being wrought on Islam to bring it into the C21st in some areas. The problem is that this change is crystallizing reactionary forces within the religion itself due to the fact that unlike Christianity there is little room for movement within the basic tenets of the faith.
The Secular Muslim is an interesting animal and in many ways like JW's, cognitive dissonance plays a large part in their methodology. The problem is that it is not possible to break away or guide the core beliefs of the Muslim faith, and frankly that is where its most difficult dogmas live, without dismantling the basis for its survival as a religion.
This produces a lethal combination of millions of people who will fight to the death to protect the core values of their faith, and the millions who see a need to change but have no basis in theology for doing so. Those who do see this need to change are seen as ‘apostates’ deserving of death by the ‘true’ Muslims.
Strangely enough I remember having this sort of conversation with a famous musician who became a Muslim and still is a very vocal advocate of its cause. I was a JW at the time and was trying hard to convert him…lol He made an interesting comment. He told me that in his view the difference between a Christian and a true Muslim was that the Christian would compromise some tenet of his beliefs if he could, whereas a true Muslim, even if he was given charter to compromise some aspects of his theology by his leaders, would not do so. All in all, a very dangerous scenario.
Best regards - HS
Interesting article in Atlantic Monthly by Bernard Lewis about the muslim world..
A *very* interesting article. Many thanks for posting it.
So good to see your posts again! Hoping all is well with you and your family.
Good to cya around here again. I have only one comment. Although I appreciate your great rebuttals and they are needed to show idiocy for being idiocy, isn't it crazy that such morons would post such comments to begin with and hope they would not go unchallenged on this board?
Of all boards, do these idiots think they can let ANYTHING that is stupid slip by without being challenged?
I guess they do. After all, that's why they are "idiots!"
It's curious that there has been no large-scale rebuttal on this thread to be shared with all. So I guess the debate is over.........