WT Style Pacificism

by Sea Breeze 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Episode 203 of Netflix ... I Am a Killer looks at the murder of Christopher Chavez in Texas.

    Christopher Chavez was a 22 year old ministerial servant and a born-in son of an JW elder. After a Thursday night meeting and a quick bite to eat afterwards with friends at a local restaurant, he was kidnapped, taken to a gas station and forced to drive his killers around for hours while they were in the back seat. Eventually, he was shot in the head for no apparent reason and left to die alone in a ditch. It took two days for him to die. His kidnapper was a 17 year old 5' 6" punk kid armed with a .22 pistol.

    Here is a quote from the article:

    There is also no indication that Chavez put up a fight... Surveillance footage shows that Chavez had a chance to fight back or to possibly escape, while in that gas station, but didn’t due to his pacifist leanings.

    Do you think the article is being fair in stating that the "pacifist leanings" of the Watchtower and his JW parenting played a significant role in his murder?

  • waton

    you can still edit the head line. its not a Paris dance, the can can.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Chavez likely grew up on the Great Teacher Book. In the Chapter - "Is it Right to Fight", it covers this topic. While not outright prohibiting fighting under all circumstances, the overall gist is very pacifist. Here are some troubling statements as far as I'm concerned:

    "We should not be mean to a person just because he was mean to us".

    "Should you let yourself get into a fight?— Again, let’s see what the Bible says. Turn to Matthew chapter 5, verse 39. There Jesus says: “Do not resist him that is wicked; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.”

    "But Jesus did not want his followers to get into fights. So he said that if someone slaps us, we should not slap him back. We should not become angry and get into a fight. If we do, we show that we are no better than the one who started the fight."

    "But what if you let yourself get into a fight and you win? What could happen then?— The one you beat up could come back with some friends. They might even hurt you with a big stick or a knife."

    "Yes, even when other people want to fight, we should be peaceable".

    The article ends with this final thought on the matter:

    "The Bible says that a disciple of Jesus “does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all.”​—2 Timothy 2:24.

    Do you think Chavez would be alive today if he was the son of a law enforcement officer or maybe had a dad with some military training? What about if he grew up in an average gun-owning Christian family?

  • waton

    I would expect that anybody menacing my family would deserve a deadly response. After all there is the resurrection hope for them. Jesus died for them.

    A surer way to get them into paradise than the house to house work.

  • carla

    My jw made it very clear that I would be on my own if someone was killing me or the kids. I find that pretty darn hard to live with sometimes. Imagine, a stranger would come to our defense when our own husband and father wouldn't, hard to believe isn't it? I tell people that sometimes and they don't believe it would actually play out that way. When I mention that one is allowed to protect oneself and family he agrees in theory at times other times I guess it is whatever the wt is selling at the moment. Depends which way the light happens to be blinking.

  • truth_b_known

    If I had to guess, and it is an educated guess, I would say that poor Christopher Chavez grew up hearing the same examples of Witnesses who were protected by invisible men that only the assailants could see. Chavez heard time and time again of Witnesses who were subject to attempted murder, rape, and armed robbery only to be miraculously saved by "calling upon Jehovah."

    Many have commented on this website how the Watchtower takes artistic license and turns incidents with JWs into fishermen's tails of the one that got away. I have no real evidence, but I will make the allegation that the Watchtower fabricates the stories of miraculous saves of JWs from acts of violence. There are too many documented cases, like Christopher Chavez', where JWs are murdered and raped.

    The Watchtower as far back as the early 1990s got to the point of refusing to state that a person should even attempt to use force in the defense of one's self or an innocent third party. Saul has slain his thousands and David his tens of thousands, but Jehovah doesn't seem to want you or I to even throw a punch to save a life.

  • wozza

    Most witnesses would have followed the same course I suppose because the they believe the sky daddy will be watching/protecting them.

    But if your an elder and another JW defrauds you ,turning the cheek or letting yourself be wronged would be ignored and vengeance is yours to mete out.

    Life can be tough ,we have had someone smashing on our door at early hours of the morning several times,no idea who it is and my partner is terrified. Now if I was a witness and called the police they probably would not come but I did call the police the last time and told them what happened ,then I said you had better send someone because I am not of a kind disposition toward the person doing this for the second time that night ,and they will find a body in the street. Well they were there in a few minutes.

    Sadly we are not patting pandas and lions like in a cartoon living a life of pretend ,nor will we ever be.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    My JW made it very clear that I would be on my own if someone was killing me or the kids.

  • TD

    Do you think the article is being fair in stating that the "pacifist leanings" of the Watchtower and his JW parenting played a significant role in his murder?

    I think "pacifist leanings" is a fair and accurate way to describe it.

    Although JW's do not embrace pacifism as a philosophy and are therefore not pacifists in the technical sense, there is a functional equivalency that makes it difficult to distinguish between the two.

    This includes, (But is not limited to) not owning firearms for the purpose of self defense, not studying martial arts or allowing their children to, not serving in law enforcement, and not coming to the aid of a police officer even if you specifically directed to do so.

  • under the radar
    under the radar

    I personally didn't know many JWs who wouldn't fight to protect themselves or their families. There were some who wouldn't have any guns in the house, and others who had several (for "hunting," of course).

    Like any large group, people in the JWs have varying degrees of fanaticism. Some sticklers, some a bit edgier.

    Maybe this victim simply felt his odds of being let go were better if he didn't put up a fight. Who knows?

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