Can't think how they will respond

Giles Gray

I've been chatting to the JWs the past couple of weeks.
The last time they called they showed me a video about a scientist who claimed that she had once been an atheist, but after studying with the JWs she had changed her mind and now believed in an intelligent creator.
What had convinced her was the process that activates the functioning of the lungs just after a baby has been born.
After we had watched the video, the JWs said that there are many people who believe that creation indicates an intelligent designer.
In reply I asked them what they thought about the 'unintelligent' aspects of creation and I went into a few examples.
At first they tried to write things off to imperfection due to Adamic sin, but as the conversation went on they slowly realised that arguing 'imperfection' wasn't an adequate explanation for the points I was making.
To cut a long story short, I ended up sending them a video via email where Professor Dawkins comments on an autopsy that highlights the impracticality of the laryngeal nerve in giraffes.
I also sent them evidence of vestigial limbs in whales and a short article about biological atavism.
In addition, I sent them an article that coincidentally was on the BBC news a few days ago about a boy in India who had a 7 inch vestigial tail removed. Here is the article I sent them:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3823461/The-teenager-7-inch-TAIL-18-year-old-finally-growth-removed-painful-sit-sleep.html
I'm really looking forward to seeing what they will come back with.
So I wanted to ask the people on this forum what they anticipate the JWs' response might be.
I thought it would also be interesting to know how people on this forum would have answered these points when they were active JWs themseves.

Here is the Dawkins video:-
https://youtu.be/cO1a1Ek-HD0

scratchme1010

They will come up with the Bible, and that you need to have faith. Then they will try to attack the reliability and reputation of the publishers of the material you gave them.

Something you can ask, which I think it's a bigger and more important question is what does any of that has to do with not celebrating birthdays, not using blood, not wearing tight pants, shunning family members for deciding not to believe that nonsense, and not going to college.

Try to have them articulate any correlation between creationism and evolution and living 1000 years and having 144,000 people in heaven and Armageddon.

They have no argument other than they say so, claiming that the bible says so.

Giles Gray

scratchme

I'm deliberately keeping away from anything 'apostate' as it will send them running in a flash.

I am keeping to topics that anybody could use, or should I say, anybody who has taken just a little time to think about the world around them.

The interesting thing with the JWs who are visiting me is they have never heard of the points I am making. When I showed them a picture of whale vestiges, their mouths were wide open.

They won't be able to use the bible as an answer because the very reason I am showing them these things is to question if the bible is accurate.

So it will be interesting where they will take it.

Vidiot

It's quite the paradigm shift when one realizes that evolution does a much better job (than creationism) explaining the weirder shit you find in nature. :smirk:

freddo

I predict they will not return.

You might get an email with some canned response and then when you blow that out of the water you'll get - at most - a "we'll have to agree to differ and goodbye" reply.

DesirousOfChange

I predict they will not return.

DITTO.

JWs usually recognize when they are in a losing argument. If this JW happens to be diligent and actually tries to research for an acceptable answer, it may result in you having planted some seeds that will disturb him/her for some time to come. More likely that their CD will kick in and they will choose to accept the "facts" that support their already founded belief in the Bible and Creation. . . . . Doc

Half banana

Most JWs have a fact filter which ignores anything said which is contrary to their doctrines. At the same time they will recognize and amplify any scrap of information however marginal or unrepresentative of reality which accords with JW beliefs.

This is what it means to be a JW.

But I do hope they return and you can also then mention that some snakes (Boas and Pythons) retain the ilium of the pelvic bones of their evolutionary forebears and that some species of skinks have legs and others are without legs. The latter demonstrating an intergrade or halfway house between two of the Biblical 'kinds'.

A Ha

but as the conversation went on they slowly realised that arguing 'imperfection' wasn't an adequate explanation for the points I was making.

You have already enjoyed much more success in the conversation than you could have ever hoped for.

Giles Gray

freddo

I don't think they will come back either. I have used this argument before and I never heard from the JW again.

Saying that, I really didn't think this pair would come back last weekend, so I might get lucky.

DOC

Putting doubt in the minds of these JWs is my intention. The impact that vestigial legs in whales had on them was quite a shocking thought. No exaggeration. Their reaction was clear to see.

And the information I sent them will stay with them for years. That is why I like to send the infornation via email. It's one thing pointing the facts out in conversation, it is another thing when they see actual pictures of something that contradicts a belief system.

So if they don't come back then I know what I've shown them will stay with them for a long time.

Half banana

That's a great point about snakes.

The other point I am keen to point out is the fact that a horse and a donkey can breed together, as well as a camel and a lama. If God created things according to their kind, how does this cross breeding happened?

A Ha -" You have already enjoyed much more success in the conversation than you could have ever hoped for."

I have indeed. But I used similar tactics with another JW a little while ago and we corresponded to and fro quite a few times. I managed to get all kinds of information over before he stopped.

Ruby456

giles

In reply I asked them what they thought about the 'unintelligent' aspects of creation and I went into a few examples

they will probably reply that God's ways are higher than man's or they might quote 1cor 1:25 which says that the foolishness of God is wiser than man and the weakness of God is stronger than man - privatey they will have a laugh at your expense - I know cos I have done this as a JW when confronted by evolutionists arguing like this

Can't think how they will respond

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