Johnson and the NHS (page 3)

LoveUniHateExams

Hi Jan - back to your OP, check out this graph on government spending for the NHS ...

The NHS isn't gonna go anywhere. It's just Labour using fear-mongering as a stick to beat the Tories with.

slimboyfat

NHS in A&E, cancer treatment, and routine hospital appointments has declined significantly in the past 5 years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-50397856

If the Tories get in again at Westminster it seems likely this dismal trend will continue. It would be interesting to revisit the figures in 5 years to find out.

LoveUniHateExams

Hospital waiting times at worst-ever level [title of the linked BBC article] - yeah, that happens when you have dodgy immigration policies.

Our politicians - particularly left-wing politicians - don't do joined up thinking at all.

To start with, the UK is quite crowded - there are many people per square km.

Then, we need to consider Labour throwing open our borders from the late 1990s onwards. The Tories haven't done immigration well, either.

We don't know how many illegal immigrants are in the UK. We don't know how many illegal immigrants use our NHS and clog up the system.

Obviously, the NHS budget should be spent wisely to bring down waiting times but we must have sensible policies across the board, including immigration policies.

Interesting you don’t dispute the NHS has got worse under the Conservatives or that it will get worse if they remain in power at Westminster. Trying to blame immigrants for Tory failure is unfortunately a tactic they may attempt to use as you have done: a cynical response which is not much comfort for those who depend on the NHS in coming years.

(See the graphs in the link above)

LoveUniHateExams

The NHS has gotten worse over time, under the fag end of the last Labour government, under the coalition government, and under the Tory governments since 2015.

Unmanaged immigration - legal and illegal - puts pressure on public services, including the NHS. That is just a fact that cannot be swept under the carpet.

A good proportion of those who will depend on the NHS in coming years will figure this out and vote accordingly.

And please withdraw your accusation of me blaming immigrants - I did no such thing.

I actually blamed the UK's high population density plus the immigration policies of successive UK governments, not the immigrants themselves.

slimboyfat

Conservatives consistently underfund the NHS when they are in power. The Scottish NHS performs better and the Conservatives don’t control the NHS in Scotland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50290033

The underfunding of the NHS under the Conservstives seems like the best explanation for why the NHS performs worse when the Conservatives are in power, to state the case rather modestly.

If you mean to claim that the performance of the NHS under the Tories is not because of their policies but because of immigration and overcrowding, then I’m interested to see your evidence. Where is the evidence the UK is overcrowded for a start. And where is the evidence that immigration rather than lack of funding is what is causing the NHS to get worse under the Conservatives?

Whatever way you cut it, if people want to NHS to improve, or at least not continue to get worse, then it is hard to see how voting Conservative is not going to harm that objective.

LoveUniHateExams

Conservatives consistently underfund the NHS when they are in power - yes, I mentioned this in an earlier post. I said the Tories may usually underfund it. But Jhine's OP asked whether the tories would sell it off. All available evidence says no, they won't do that.

The Scottish NHS performs better and the Conservatives don’t control the NHS in Scotland - that may well be a factor but it doesn't cover the state of the NHS elsewhere, outside of Scotland.

The reality is that immigration levels shot up in the late 90s under Labour, and that this has an effect, and the tories haven't properly sorted it out, either.

slimboyfat

So we are agreed the Conservstives underfund the NHS when in power and that this impacts the NHS.

Where is your evidence for your claims? For overcrowding, and for the claim that immigration is causing NHS performance to decline.

We don’t know if the Tories will privatise more of the NHS or not, but it seems unsafe to take either Johnson’s or Trump’s word for it. And whether they privatise or not, underfunding of the NHS alone causes it to get worse as the data show.

cofty

Obesity, hypochondria and binge-drinking are the greatest threat to the NHS.

slimboyfat

No doubt all great challenges, and an ageing population an even greater challenge still. This doesn’t address Conservative underfunding of the NHS and the decline in performance.

Johnson and the NHS

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