My friend the 'Super-Dub.'
I speak semi-regularly to an old friend of mine who I would describe as a Super-Dub.
He knows I am inactive but over the years I have peppered him with a lot of questions about the org. that I hoped would make him at least pause and think somewhat rationally about the reality of being a JW in this brave new- post GB 2.0 world.
We have discussed everything from the generation changes, to the U.N. , failed prophecy, flip flops, the reduction in size of the WT magazine, the closing/ consolidation of bethels including lay-offs, JW broadcasting, cart witnessing- etc, etc.
What do I mean by Super-Dub? He is a born-in, has missionary parents, he reg. pioneered straight out of high school, went to bethel, became an elder, married a reg pioneer sister and home- schooled his kids, who are now pioneering.
Although this guy is a rusted-on JW., I am sometimes surprised how far he lets me push things in our conversations.
I always approached our conversations from the point of view that everything I asked was sincere and genuine and not from a critical one. I told him I cannot, with good conscience go from door to door and tell people we have the 'truth' , especially about the dates of the last days, when the 'truth' we have now is not the same as it was a few years ago. I asked him why his conscience allowed him to, because to a person at the door, isn't it bringing reproach upon Gods name if we are telling lies while claiming to represent him?
We have talked for hours and hours over the years about stuff like this. Interestingly, I have come to realise that not only has he never really 'heard' my side of the story, he always seemed to ascribe only good things to the GB, even when they are clearly wrong. One of his favourite sayings is, 'to question the GB, is to question Jehovah'. ( I know right).
I have tried to use logical, well- rounded reasoning , much of it from this website, every time we spoke and I always avoided raising my voice in frustration, although he would often do so when he couldn't explain something.
It has been said many times on this web-site but I'll say it again. It doesn't matter if you have over-whelming proof in your hand that a teaching is not accurate. All it comes down to is this question- 'do you believe that GB and the faithful and discreet slave are Gods representatives in charge of his belongings on earth today'?
This question negates any need for a dub to think through a problem or doubt. With this mind-set, the most genuine and sensible question you ask may be treated as an attack on his faith, the org. that he loves and has staked his life, and the life of his children- sometimes literally, on. The GB are always right and have Gods approval- even when they are wrong.
Sad but true.
Now that I think about it that might be a good sitcom idea, "My Friend the Super-Dub", kind of like The Odd Couple.
I wonder if people like him are just feeling like they've invested so much in the religion...sacrificed a life...that to admit it was to no avail is just too disheartening.....so they hang in there...hoping its right and squelching cognitive dissonance....
I suppose it depends how much you value facts and reality. Whether something is true or not doesn't seem to bother some people, look at gossip mags and websites. I can't believe the rubbish some people read online and when you say but how do know that's true they just shrug. So people stay in the religion because facts don't really matter to them, not questioning anything in their world in more comfortable.
Yes, their motto is:
"why allow FACTS to get in the way of one's beliefs?"
Maybe thats how you start the conversation then...
Why do you worship the gb and do whatever they say? Then when they give you the answer about how they do not follow or worship the gb, go into all the other things you talk about.
Make them disprove your initial question in whatever way they choose and then go into all the issue that prove they are full of contradictions.
At the end of the day, they will not tear down the wall until they want to but until then... every. brick. helps.
Are you sure he isn't using you to count time? Why else would he spend time with you when this is the tenor of your exchanges? What's it like for you realising he's not taking on board anything you say? I'm trying to work out exactly what's going on not just from his perspective but also yours.
Yep, that is the prime, I might even say only, unchangeable doctrine in Watchtower-world.
Well Explained joey jojo. Reflects a lot of my experience too.
I too had a super Dub friend, who helped me a lot when I was in and hates me more now, after I left.
My final conversations with him regarding TTATT provoked a lot of anger in him and he acted as a Sub-GB to make my other JW associates hate and shun me. I still email him, reassuring my love for him but he never responds.