Are the statistics out yet? (page 13)

a watcher

The abysmal baptism totals from the past 2 years reveal how poorly the JWs are really doing at this time.

Magnum

Blotty: People are going to make surface level arguments to try and playdown or discredit them just because they don't like them for one reason or another
"Just because they don't like them for one reason or another?" Huh? You make the dislike some have for the org seem to be light and trivial. I hate the org. Allow me to briefly tell you why. I was strongly indoctrinated beginning at around age 5. When I was 11, I had to take to an aptitude/IQ test to get into a private school. I scored the highest grade ever scored and the school indicated that I could do whatever I wanted in life. HOWEVER, school officials had no idea I was strongly indoctrinated into an endtimes religion.
I had great potential that was stolen from me. I trusted the many older JW authority figures who strongly influenced me. The religion seemed to make sense back then. I was one who was concerned about suffering, injustice, and other issues. I was also one who was willing to sacrifice for what he believed in and thought was right.
Therefore, I lost the prime of my life to the religion and organization. I suffered and sacrificed and lived in misery and poverty for decades serving the org full-time, doing menial part-time secular work just to survive.
I feel that those who misled me back then, including many org leaders, were sincere. However, the org is today deceptive and cold and self-serving. It is still trying to steal lives as it did mine. Every day I am slapped in the face by the fact that I was a JW for decades. I will never escape the effects. I have zero contact with close relatives (all JWs) with whom I was once close, including my own mother. They think I'm either weak or evil or a combination of the two.
I have no children because I listened to the org. If I don't just drop dead, I will end up in an old dreary nursing home with no one to check on me or give a damn. I was promised that by now I would have long been in paradise.
I hate the org and want to see it crash and burn.
Link

Rattigan350

The only number that matters is the number of congregations.

Number of publishers is so fake.

Pioneers is meaningless.

Memorial partakers is meaningless.

Memorial attenders. Anyone can sit in a chair.

Bible Studies, people study forever and do nothing.

But for many years congregations would grow and split. Now congregations are being deleted.

That is what shows.

peacefulpete

I feel that those who misled me back then, including many org leaders, were sincere. However, the org is today deceptive and cold and self-serving.

Magnum...I see many posters mirror those sentiments. Problem is those sentiments are from people who left decades apart. The change of opinion about the church are the result of a person's perception and their experience, not really to the changes in the church. The church 'worked' for you when you were younger, but it no longer does. That may be because of your widening of your heart or your mind. Simply said, the church never really was the place we imagined when we were new converts or young people raised into it.

slimboyfat

I don’t have a problem with using JW figures because I think they are generally reliable. It’s because you cast doubt on Watchtower figures that I pointed out the same inference about the relative growth of JWs compared with other groups can be verified from outside measures even if you disregard Watchtower numbers entirely.

Watchtower aren’t the only ones who inflate their numbers in various ways. Other groups, if anything, are worse than JWs at this. So any genuine comparisons, looking at the limitations on both sides, and not just the JW side, may produce a favourable picture of growth for JWs compared with other groups.

The most extreme example of inflating numbers is the Mormon church because they routinely add all baptisms to their membership total but do not remove inactive members from the total, so they have ended up with millions of phantom members. Even if they lose touch with individuals they still include them as members until they would be 110 years old. In recent years there has been a movement by former Mormons to request and get their names removed from the membership roll, but even so the majority of inactive members don’t go to these lengths and are still counted.

Other churches, I know, keep members on the books for years ‘hoping they’ll come back at some point’ too, even waiving usual membership criteria such as a small annual donation.

On the topic of disfellowshipping you are correct that Christadelphians do not shun as JWs, but it would be inaccurate to say that disfellowshipping has no social consequences for Christadelphians beyond the breaking of bread meeting, and practice varies between ecclesias with some being stricter than others. In some cases fellowship is withdrawn from entire ecclesias and, while they don’t practice hard shunning, it is fair to say that social contact is curtailed in such circumstances. As for the Exclusive Brethren, I don’t know if they have truly reformed in recent years, but traditionally their shunning practices were every bit as severe as JWs. There are testimonies from former members to this effect.

I suspect that the leaders at Warwick are probably quite alarmed by the figures in the latest report. They are probably inclined to compare it with past performance and see a dramatic downturn. I don’t think they would be much comforted by my point that other religions are doing much worse, because they don’t see themselves as comparable to other religions.

If I was in their position, I would be most concerned about the drop in baptisms because lack of new members will impact overall numbers for years to come. Young people who didn’t get baptised during the pandemic may end up never getting baptised and will be lost forever as members. No wonder there has been emphasis on getting baptised and this will likely increase in view of the latest numbers.

I hope the don’t find the numbers this year so bad that they stop publishing them next year.

Reservations

I don’t think they will ever stop the year report.

It was very bad after the 1975 fallout, they recovered, i suspect they believe they will recover again.

The current 3 year attrition rate is 0.92

The current 5 year attrition rate is 0.86

The only time the 3 year rate was above 1 was 1979.

The 5 year rate also in 1979 was 0.95.

Figures show we aren’t in 1975 fallout territory. Yet.

Give it 10/15 years when the old guard die off, and the kids who are only hanging on for their parents (who have died) leave, THEN you will see the real decline. It will make the 1975 fallout look like a walk in the park.

cofty

Give it 10/15 years when the old guard die off, and the kids who are only hanging on for their parents (who have died) leave - Reservations

This ^^^^

I am sure there are a lot of JWs in their 30s - 50s who are only still there for the sake of parents.

Simon

The sad things is that the people who do this then drag their own kids into the position they were in. Everyone ends up being there out of a sense of duty to everyone else. It's why I think the idea of being "PIMO" (Physically In, Mentally Out) is seriously flawed, misguided and unhealthy for all concerned.

Leaving, being the ones to make the break and take that hit, is a gift to your children and possibly to your parents too ... because maybe they are only going because you are.

St George of England

I am sure there are a lot of JWs in their 30s - 50s who are only still there for the sake of parents.

Very true, however, I am sure there are a lot of JW's in their 70's to 80's who are only in still for the sake of their children and ultimately themselves. Nobody wants to be old and infirm without the support of their family. Too late to leave, insufficient advantages compared to the status quo.

George

ThomasCovenant

What Simon said I agree strongly with.

Also the physically in, mentally out ones are adding to the peer pressure on others to continue being PIMO.

Ultimately people can die from the no blood policies of the WT society.

I consider PIMO to be partially blood guilty ( for want of a better phrase) for anyone that dies from the no blood policy.

PIMO, just leave.

Are the statistics out yet?

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