by cofty 496 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Human free-will needs natural laws, total privacy in the mind and a relative hide from God.
Because the presence of God collapses permanently the free-will (there are other things that collapses the free-will too but temporarily, like beauty, for instance).
When you see (in totality) God your very nature is transformed, in a sense you cease to be a human as we know it (no man can see God and live).
John_Mann,
Now that you've told us all about free will and zero sum could you please answer my questions by providing EXPLICIT and DIRECT answers to the questions asked?
If God supposedly can design a dimension of existence (the afterlife according to you) to be free from:
1. The evidence would not show beyond all doubt that the diversity of life rested on millions of years of relentless competition, death and destruction. Life would not have been all but wiped out in mass extinctions at least five times in its history.
2. The predominant economy in the natural world would not be parasitic and predatory. The world really would show the loving qualities of its maker without having to ignore the majority of the facts.
7.Natural disasters would not kill millions of earth's inhabitants. The planet would not be designed to destroy life.
Why couldn't he do similarly for the physical/natural world?
What's the point of creating a physical/natural world where 1, 2 & 7 exist if there is another dimension in which they don't exist?
What does God get out of having these 2 dimensions of existence which have starkly different characteristics?
If you had the option to create a dimension in which 1, 2 & 7 do not exist versus the option to create a dimension in which 1, 2 & 7 do exist, which option would you chose and why?
Now that you've told us all about free will and zero sum could you please answer my questions by providing EXPLICIT and DIRECT answers to the questions asked?
Evil is inevitable if you want free-will.
This world is the best possible world suited to free-willed beings.
Evil is inevitable and necessary in all possible worlds.
Even in an atheistic interpretation of the world.
Evil can only be isolated (and even this is only possible by ceasing free-will). That's why Hell must exist. And that's why there's no free-will in Heaven.
John_Mann
Your attempts to reply to the nine observations in my OP are the best possible demonstration of the failure of theism to talk sense.
I will respond in detail later.
John_Mann,
You still have not answered my questions.
You still have not answered my questions.
You can say you don't agree with my answers, right?
Again, evil is inevitable.
John_Mann,
"Evil can only be isolated (and even this is only possible by ceasing free-will). That's why Hell must exist. And that's why there's no free-will in Heaven."
1. So why not just send the people who are destined for Hell to Heaven as well and just cease their free will?
If free will can be ceased as you claim then no one should be sent to Hell. Everyone, both good and bad, should be sent to Heaven and then it's just simply a matter of ceasing their free will and everything will be fine and dandy.
2. So God created one place where there is no free will and no evil (Heaven) and another place where there is free will and evil (the physical/natural world).
As I've asked before:
- Why couldn't God do similarly for the physical/natural world?
- What's the point of creating a physical/natural world where 1, 2 & 7 exist if there is another dimension in which they do not exist?
- What does God get out of having these 2 dimensions of existence which have starkly different characteristics?
- If you had the option to create a dimension in which 1, 2 & 7 do not exist versus the option
to create a dimension in which 1, 2 & 7 do exist, which option would you chose and why?
John_Mann,
"Evil is inevitable and necessary in all possible worlds."
So God created one place where there is no free will and no evil (Heaven) and another place where there is free will and evil (the physical/natural world).
This clearly indicates then, that God is both good AND EVIL.
1. So why not just send the people who are destined for Hell to Heaven as well and just cease their free will?
The cessation of free-will is about the choice between God and evil. Not the free-will between electronic or classical music, for instance.
Both souls in Heaven and Hell doesn't have free-will between God and evil anymore.
Souls go to Heaven or Hell immediately (and automatically) after the "hour of death" (we don't know exactly about the metaphysical process of death like "how much time" it takes. Jews say 11 months and Buddhists 49 days, the Catholic Church only says "hour").
This is called the Particular Judgement and finally someday they will be judged publicly in the Last Judgment.
If free will can be ceased as you claim then no one should be sent to Hell.
Why?
And this is not my claim, I just accepted it. This claim is from Christianity for several centuries. But I suppose you're not familiar with mainstream Christianity, right?
Everyone, both good and bad, should be sent to Heaven and then it's just simply a matter of ceasing their free will and everything will be fine and dandy.
No.
But we hope (and pray) to everybody goes to Heaven. The only beings certain to go to Hell are the demons.
2. So God created one place where there is no free will and no evil (Heaven) and another place where there is free will and evil (the physical/natural world).
Even the spiritual world will have (isolated) evil forever.
This clearly indicates then, that God is both good AND EVIL.
No.
God did not created Hell or evil.
That's Satan creation.
God only created the inevitable possibility of evil just like an architect creates the inevitable possibility of a suicidal jumping from a high balcony. This is called normal risk.
Satan was the first fool to have the idea to jump from the balcony to nihil.
Just because he didn't accept God taking the human nature inside the Godhead.
Satan became the lowest level of existence and Mary the highest level below God. Mary is the nearest being to God. The human nature is totally elevated in Heaven.
Ave Maria!
John_Mann,
I note that you have selectively answered my questions.
According to you, God created one place where there is no free will and no evil (Heaven) and another place where there is free will and evil (the physical/natural world).
AGAIN I ASK:
If God supposedly can create a dimension of existence (Heaven/the afterlife according to you) to be free from:
1. The evidence would not show beyond all doubt that the diversity of life rested on millions of years of relentless competition, death and destruction. Life would not have been all but wiped out in mass extinctions at least five times in its history.
2. The predominant economy in the natural world would not be parasitic and predatory. The world really would show the loving qualities of its maker without having to ignore the majority of the facts.
7.Natural disasters would not kill millions of earth's inhabitants. The planet would not be designed to destroy life.
- Why couldn't he do similarly for the physical/natural world?
- What's the point of creating a physical/natural world where 1, 2 & 7 exist if there is another dimension in which they do not exist?
- What does God get out of having these two dimensions of existence which have starkly different characteristics?
- If you had the option to create a dimension in which 1, 2 & 7 do not exist versus the option
to create a dimension in which 1, 2 & 7 do exist, which option would you chose and why?
