Who Are the "Other Sheep" and Jesus "Brothers" ?

by Sea Breeze 40 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Vanderhoven7

  The thief on the cross recognized that he was a sinner deserving of death.

  He recognized the Jesus was LORD and called Him so.

  He recognized that as LORD, He had the power to forgive sin.

  He recognized that Jesus had a future beyond death.

  He recognized that Jesus would be king of His kingdom come,

  Because he recognized these things, he asked and received the promise of participation with the Lord Jesus Christ in that kingdom.

  Jesus said that whosoever believed in Him would past from death to life and be free condemnation. Seems to me, the thief qualified.
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  Sea Breeze

  @FA

  jesus said the samaritan was closer to truth, it wasn't because of the idols he worshipped, it was because he showed love, (the other guys who pretended to be "clean" just walked on by)

  What is the point you are trying to make? Surely you are not suggesting that a person can be good enough to merit having their sins forgiven are you?

  
  
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  FragrantAddendum

  if a "known apostate" who doesn't subscribe to whatever worldview you're promoting is lying knocked out on the road

  the wt elder walks by

  the [fill-in-the-blank] person walks by

  an idolatrous, atheist, pornography-watching, mason/satanist, murderer stops

  and helps the dude out by being kind

  which one showed love?

  jesus forgave the guy on the torture stake because that guy showed love in the moment and recognized who jesus was

  the wicked pharisees who taught all the fancy rhetoric and washed their hands up to their elbows were condemned because they missed not just the point of the law but the person who could forgive sins
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  FragrantAddendum

  there are individuals in every organization on earth

  it is the heart of the individual that matters

  it's not the rituals that matter

  rituals are nothing

  love is something
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  Sea Breeze

  Jesus resurrected - Jesus returned to life; no longer dead. Just about every JW I know has literally declared this with their literal mouth.
  Jesus didn't get technical about the word resurrected. Back in the flesh, gases, etc. The point is he was non living, and returned to life.

  @ Halcon

  Romans 10: 9 - If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

  Getting saved is unbelievably simple. The terms don't give the enemy much to work with. But, he makes the most of what he does have.

  The phrase Jesus is Lord is a reference to Jesus' deity. Keep in mind that Jesus predicted that he would raise himself from the dead....WHILE HE WAS DEAD. Scholars confirm that the deity of Jesus was established immediately after the resurrection. And, for good reason. Only God could produce a feat like that.

  So when JW's acknowledge Jesus is Lord, they are not referenceing Jesus' deity like scripture does. They teach he is Michael the Archangel. They got the wrong Jesus & the WRONG Lord.

  Regarding the other simple requirement for Justification - resurrection: The biblical definition of death is when your soul, body and spirit becoem separated:

  Rachel labored in childbirth, and she had hard labor. Now it came to pass, when she was in hard labor, that the midwife said to her, “Do not fear; you will have this son also.” And so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), - Gen, 35: 16-18

  A resurrection occurs when just the opposite happens - the soul, body and spirit are reunited into one being.

  The WT is adament that Jesus was NOT in his own body after the cross. THIS IS THE SAME AS PROCLAIMING THAT JESUS WAS NOT RESURRECTED. They can't possibly know this for sure one way or another. So, why the dogmatism?

  It only makes sense if WT is trying to circumvent the simplicity of Christ and take people to hell.
  
  

  Romans 10: 9 - If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

  These are NOT technicalities. They are direct assaults on the accessibility of Salvation. And because the WT makes such a big deal out of it, it makes me think that this issue must be one of the primary arguments before God that Satan uses to demand that JW's go to hell just like any other unbeliever.

  @FA

  it is the heart of the individual that matters

  Is this what you think will save you?

  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jer. 17:9

  What is it exactly that apparently bothers you about accepting a gift (salvation) that you are prevented in contributing toward?
  
  
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  Halcon

  A resurrection occurs when just the opposite happens - the soul, body and spirit are reunited into one being.

  The WT is adament that Jesus was NOT in his own body after the cross. They can't possibly know this fro sure one way or another. So, why the dogmatism?

  It only makes sense if WT is trying to circumvent the simplicity of Christ and take peoplel to hell.

  I am following your thinking here. However, what about the millions of people (as apparently JWs) out there that don't comprehend the 'scholarly' definitions due to a lack of education? For people that can't even read, dead is dead.

  They don't understand the technicalities you say aren't there. Who would be responsible for them not comprehending the 'real' meaning of death so as to truly understand the real meaning of resurrection...and subsequently go to hell because of it?
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  Halcon

  It is the heart of the individual that matters

  Is this what you think will save you?

  Breeze, what part of us accepts that Christ is Lord and was resurrected?
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  FragrantAddendum

  if all who claim to be "christ's brothers" are like these two prostitutes

  which one do you think jesus would want to take care of his kids?

  

  the real "mother" isn't the one who wants the babies dead.

  wt disfellowships her own kids

  then wants other kids dead

  (i use the term "kid" figuratively here)

  jesus came to save lives

  he doesn't want to lose them

  christ's "brothers" who work in the kingdom arrangement

  are more like loving moms who will do anything to save the kids

  they don't care if the kids have sinned and how bad

  as long as they turn around and want to live

  their hearts cry out "save my baby!!!"
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  FragrantAddendum

  jesus died so that we could live

  all of us

  his blood is enough

  he didn't make it complicated
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  Sea Breeze

  @FA

  Agreed. The enemy has made it complicated on purpose. Why doesn't Watchtower claim that Lazurus wasn't in his real body when he was resurrected? Why don't they go way out of their way to say his body was turned into gases too? Why only Jesus?

  Could it be because of what God said here below and the enemy is trying to use this against him (and us)?

  Romans 10: 9 - If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

  The enemy is not that hard to figure out once you catch his grift.

  I think we are all basically on the same page. I believe my points are underappreciated and under-represented though in JW focused apologetics efforts.

  The devil is in the details.