Did Jesus attend a "worldly celebration"?

by Westenddave 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Westenddave
    Westenddave

    Hello community,

    My question in a nutshell is whether there is justification in celebrating worldly holidays, such as the 4th of July in the USA?

    Let's look at a parallel.

    My question arises from John 10:22. It says, " At that time the Festival of Dedication took place in Jerusalem. It was wintertime, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the colonnade of Sol′o·mon.

    The WT admits Jesus attended Hanukkah, per insight book,

    "The... Festival of Dedication ... was not one of the great festivals requiring attendance at Jerusalem. (Ex 23:14-17; Le 23:4-44) Celebration was held throughout the land in the many synagogues, according to Jewish tradition. Later, at John 10:22, Jesus is specifically mentioned as attending one such Festival of Dedication in Jerusalem.

    For any not familiar with Hanukkah, the story is contained in the apocrypha, 1 & 2 Maccabees. These books tell the story of the Maccabees, a small band of Jewish fighters who liberated the Land of Israel from the Syrian Greeks who occupied it. The Greeks sought to impose their Hellenistic culture. By 167 B.C.E, the Greeks intensified their campaign by defiling the Temple in Jerusalem and banning Jewish practice. The Maccabees, led by Judah, waged an uprising that culminated in defeating the Greeks and rededicating the Temple.

    So here are the issues. (& perhaps you can think of more)

    1] Hanukkah, like the 4th of July, celebrates independence from an imperial nation (like England).

    2] There is no evidence that the Maccabees had God's approval. In fact, WT rejects their writings as uninspired, even though Hanukkah also celebrates the miracle of the oil: that God miraculously made a 1-day supply of oil burn for 8 days, to provide light.

    2] Per WT, this holiday is not inspired by God, unlike Passover, feast of weeks and booths. It was not foreshadowed in anyway. There was no requirement to attend.

    Jesus would be well aware of the above issues. But why then attend? The WT would reprove if not Df a JW for unrepentantly attending the 4th of July (for not keeping separate from the world). Is there a difference?

  • prologos
    prologos
    Westendave: The WT would reprove if not Df a JW for unrepentantly attending the 4th of July (for not keeping separate from the world). Is there a difference? --- not df perhaps but DA.? hardly, who can resist the concert, the fireworks even if only on TV,? kiss goodbye half the "publishers" ? Jesus had already started fading and DAed himself by his constant conflict with the elders of his day. He even stayd for several days in the Samaritan city of the lady at the well, well, a no no for a dedicated Jew that he was.
  • TheWonderofYou
    TheWonderofYou

    "Whatever may be the case, the temple services were observed during the ministry of Jesus Christ. Zerubbabel’s temple had been rebuilt (replaced) more elaborately by Herod. For this reason and because of their dislike of Herod, the Jews usually make mention of only two temples, Solomon’s and Zerubbabel’s. Neither in the words of Jesus nor in any of the writings of his disciples do we find any condemnation of the Festival of Dedication. It is not, however, enjoined on Christians in the new covenant.Col 2:16; Ga 4:10, 11; Heb 8:6."

    @WOL

    So we could say that everything that a Jew did is okay for us today if it was specially condemned by Jesus or Apostel, right? Let us see what they did else and was not condemned in the scriptures.

    I cant see any reason why we should not take part in this beautiful Festival of Lights even today, if Jesus celebrated it, at least should Jewhish christians be allowed to do it.


  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    The JW response to this would be that irrespective of whether the Maccabees had God's approval, the celebration commemorated the restoration of Jewish worship at the temple in Jerusalem. They would argue that there is a distinction from other 'national holidays' because of their view that 'Christians' (by which they mean 'only JWs') are 'no part of the world' and are not 'really' citizens of 'other' nations ("lands"?), whereas the Jews were supposedly 'God's chosen nation'. They would further add that Jesus had not yet instituted the replacement of the Jewish passover at the time that he attended the Jewish festivals. (That said, the response from many JWs would probably be more like, "um... I don't know... ah... I'll have to do some research and get back to you.")

    JWs (and other Protestants) do minimise the significance of the history leading up to the Hanukkah celebration, which is actually the entire theme of the book of Daniel. This is largely so that the book of Daniel can instead by misapplied to Jesus and subsequent end-times beliefs.

  • Jse
    Jse

    At this time in early Christian history, Jesus didn't have proper instructions from the Watchtower to tell him what he could and couldn't do.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    It has been stated a few times on this board that if Jesus were to return, he would be considered an apostate by Botchtower. Would he be a 'true JW'? Highly doubt it.

    Interpretation of scripture is always in the best interest of the one doing the interpretation. Always look to the agenda of the interpreter.

    As for celebrating, this scripture says you should not be judged by how you wish to celebrate:

    Colossians 2:16: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. NIV

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    Ws (and other Protestants) do minimise the significance of the history leading up to the Hanukkah celebration, which is actually the entire theme of the book of Daniel. This is largely so that the book of Daniel can instead by misapplied to Jesus and subsequent end-times beliefs.

    Jeffro is this why the Jews don't consider Daniel a prophet and actually its said these are "writings" or stories ( historians say pure fantasy and not historical) because the Maccabees were not god approved as such? Just wondered. It certainly seems that the Millerites and end time lot like the JWs are the only ones who set any great store in Daniel, is this not so? Do let me know if anyone knows anything please?

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Diogenesister:

    Jeffro is this why the Jews don't consider Daniel a prophet and actually its said these are "writings" or stories ( historians say pure fantasy and not historical) because the Maccabees were not god approved as such? Just wondered. It certainly seems that the Millerites and end time lot like the JWs are the only ones who set any great store in Daniel, is this not so? Do let me know if anyone knows anything please?

    There is broad consensus among scholars that the book of Daniel was written by anonymous authors in the middle of the 2nd century BCE, and there are no references to it earlier than that period. The Jews considered the prophetic canon to be closed by the beginning of the 2nd century BCE. The first six chapters appear to be adapted from older folk tales, and as explained in the article I linked, re-worked to fit the theme of banning and subsequent restoration of Jewish worship under Antiochus IV. Chapters 2-6 were not even originally written in the same language as the rest of the book. Chapter 4 doesn't even claim to be written by 'Daniel', but is instead supposedly narrated by Nebuchadnezzar (but it borrows from an older tale about Nabonidus).

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007
    Intetesting point good stuff.
  • TheWonderofYou
    TheWonderofYou
    What is Chanukka?

    Prayers of Hannuka candle light festival here from the tube.

    So why not, lets celebrate like Jesus did and speak the prayer as he prayed once ago.

    Is the jewish culture new for you, foreign? It should not be at all because Jesus was a Jew.

    (I once talked with a muslim woman, and she was astonished to here that Jesus was a Jew. "Whaaaat? Not true..... the Jews are cursed"..as this was the most normal matter of the world)

    What is Chanukky > Parody and history lession:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqPGE0NQjaU

    Prayers at Chanukka Candle light festival in 3 parts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fb-tkAet5A

    1. Blessed are You, Lord our G-d, King of the universe, who has sanctified us with His commandments, and commanded us to kindle the Chanukah light.

    (Jesus language: Ba-ruch A-tah Ado-nai E-lo-he-nu Me-lech ha-olam a-sher ki-de-sha-nu be-mitz-vo-tav ve-tzi-va-nu le-had-lik ner Cha-nu-kah)

    2. Blessed are You, Lord our G-d, King of the universe, who performed miracles for our forefathers in those days, at this time.

    ( Ba-ruch A-tah Ado-nai E-lo-he-nu Me-lech Ha-olam she-a-sa ni-sim la-avo-te-nu ba-ya-mim ha-hem bi-zman ha-zeh.)

    3. Blessed are You, Lord our G-d, King of the universe, who has granted us life, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this occasion.

    (Ba-ruch A-tah Ado-nai E-lo-he-nu Me-lech Ha-olam she-heche-ya-nu ve-ki-yi-ma-nu ve-higi-a-nu liz-man ha-zeh.)


    Hanukka Dance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqEQy6l1kzc

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