Can any JW answer "Yes" to this VERY simple question?:

by BoogerMan 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • BoogerMan

    "Jesus related 30 - 50 parables/similes. Can you name just one which was to be understood as a prophecy? Just one!"

    Utterly amaze them by showing that there is one - allegedly!

    ka chap. 17 pp. 342-343 pars. 24-26 - "In this PARABLE the “slave” was not given silver “talents” with which to do business....No sooner did the spiritual “food” become available “at the proper time” on the festival day of Pentecost of 33 C.E., than the appointed “slave” class proved itself “faithful and discreet” by passing out the “food” under the inspiration of God’s outpoured spirit.... At this “proper time” it was that the “faithful and discreet slave” class fed them...26 Less than three and a half years later the feeding efforts of the “faithful and discreet slave” class were extended to other prospective “domestics.”"

    I'm certain they will be delighted to learn of this wonderful piece of Bible trivia.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    Sure, allegedly, not a single Bible scholar takes this as a prophecy. It’s easy to fit yourself into a position, if you can rewrite the history to fit.

    In reality, the Bible doesn’t have a single prophecy, everything is written about the past. It’s a book of ancient stories, not a single writer claimed directly to be a prophet as we understand it (diviner or seer) the modern word prophet is most often mistranslated from the original text, the word translated into prophet in English (Navi’) actually has the meaning of proclaimer or announcing, more along the lines of (religious) story teller, not ‘seeing into the future’.

  • EasyPrompt

    @BoogerMan, yes, so clear that the illustration Jesus gave about the faithful and discreet slave is about keeping on the watch. It is not about some "title" - it is about keeping on the watch.

    @AnonyMous, I'm not sure what you are talking about. The Bible is clear that God sends prophets even today.

    Amos 3:7

    "For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing

    Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets."

    Jeremiah 25:4

    "And Jehovah sent all his servants the prophets to you, sending them again and again, but you would not listen or incline your ear to hear."

    Jesus was a prophet. The parable in Matthew 24:45 that the WTBT$ likes to misapply is actually designed to encourage Christians to keep on the watch for the rest of the prophecies that Jesus foretold would happen. The great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah is soon to begin, and Jehovah will continue to send His prophets to help the people get ready for what is to come.

    Malachi 4:5,6

    "“Look! I am sending to you E·liʹjah the prophet before the coming of the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah. And he will turn the hearts of fathers back toward sons, and the hearts of sons back toward fathers, so that I may not come and strike the earth, devoting it to destruction.""

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    @EasyPrompt: I am telling you the meaning of the words as they are written in the original languages and linguistic rather than theological analysis.

    The fact you believe things based on the words from an old-English translation and subsequent interpretation of the English words by some 19th century swindler is rather irrelevant to the conversation of whether in some religions (actually, only the Millerite group of religions believes in an apocalyptic Jesus) Jesus was taken up as a seer/spiritualist, the original text does not support this and if it did, as with everything, the Jews would’ve noted that Jesus was a spiritist or practicing witchcraft/divination as the few times seeing into the future is actually mentioned in the Bible (eg. Solomon consulting with the witch of Endor) it is actually really bad.

    The Bible specifically has an ordinance against wizards (literally translated, seeing into the future) as it denies free will (if the future is defined, there is no free will).

  • EasyPrompt

    The so-called "FD$" are false prophets, as is described by Jesus in Matthew 7:15 - "Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves."

    The fact that there would be "false prophets" implies that there would also be true prophets.

  • KalebOutWest

    If a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord but the thing does not take place or prove true, it is a word that the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not be frightened by it.--Deut 18:22, NRSVue.

    Jonah began to go into the city, going a day’s walk. And he cried out, “Forty days more, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”--Jonah 3:4, NRSVue.

    When God saw [that the people in Ninevah repented], how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that [Jonah] had said he would bring upon them, and he did not do it.--Jonah 3:10, NRSVue.

    The above Scripture texts show that a prophet, according to the Bible, is not a foreteller of events. It also causes a problem for the Jehovah's Witnesses and their theology regarding what makes a "false" prophet and what makes a "true" prophet.

    In Hebrew, the word "prophet" comes from the Hebrew root word nabu which basically means "spokesperson" or "announcer." It is the word used as "prophet" in English translations for Aaron when God tells Moses that he will be Moses' "spokesperson" or "prophet" since Moses cannot speak well. Aaron, of course does NOT tell the future, he merely speaks on behalf of Moses.--See Exodus 7:1.

    As the above example with Jonah shows us, a prophet is merely a spokesman for God. And the prophecy or "oracle" (which is a better rendition or translation) is merely a pronouncement or God's message to people. They can come true, but it all depends on the audience and how they respond.

    Was Jonah a false prophet since Ninevah repented and was not destroyed? Or was Moses a false prophet since what he said about Jonah was not true since it was God who was merciful and was the one who made Moses' words invalid about what makes a prophet true or false? (And if Moses is false then what does that make the rest of the Bible?)

    The problem is not with the Bible, but with a mistaken understanding of the word "prophecy" and what these things are. They are conditional statements, like with Jonah, not what is set in stone. As stated in Jeremiah 18:7-8:

    I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, but if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will change my mind about the disaster that I intended to bring on it.--NRSVue.

    Even the prophecies about the Messiah aren't actually forecasts about an actual individual. There are no direct verses in the Hebrew Bible that say: "There shall arise a Messiah..." or "The Messiah shall do this and that..." In fact, the actual words about the Jewish Messiah don't appear in the Hebrew Bible at all. The reason for the Jewish expectations came likely after the Maccabean Revolt and as a result the Hamoneans crowned one of their own, a Levite, as king, who eventually made a pact with Rome which led to the founding of the Herodians.

    Many Jews began studying the Law and Scriptures, and noted that there were repeated promises to David's dynasty to rule forever, claiming that no one else should have been anointed as king. So all texts (via midrash) along this line began to be interpreted in light of hopes that growing oppresions would cease with the coming of an anointed one in the line of David.

    But even in this, it was not believed that this was a type of "a magical foretelling of events." These Jews were merely pointing out that the Hasmoneans had taken what was rightfully supposed to be given to someone in the line of Judah. But the Hasmonean dynasty itself was doomed due to its foolish partnership with Rome and the Herodians, and when Rome became the world power and placed Herod in the seat over Judea it had proven too late.

    As to the statement: The fact that there would be "false prophets" implies that there would also be true prophets.

    That is a logical fallacy.

    Just because there are "false cults" does not imply that there would be true cults, does there? Of course not. Just because there are "bad child abusers" does not imply that there would be true and good child abusers.

    See? The existence of a "false" or "negative" does not imply or prove the existence or "positive" or "good" of the same or equivalent.

  • EasyPrompt

    Hi, @KalebOutWest!😃

    Wasn't "nabu" that monkey from Disney's Aladdin?

  • EasyPrompt
    AnonyMous said: "the Jews would’ve noted that Jesus was a spiritist or practicing witchcraft/divination as the few times seeing into the future is actually mentioned in the Bible (eg. Solomon consulting with the witch of Endor)"

    Um, it was King Saul who went to the witch of Endor, not Solomon.

    And as regards Jesus being a prophet, he himself confirmed...

    John 4:17-26

    "Jesus said to her: “You are right in saying, ‘I do not have a husband.’ For you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. This you have said truthfully.”

    "The woman said to him: “Sir, I see that you are a prophet. Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.”

    "Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

    "The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.” Jesus said to her: “I am he, the one speaking to you.”"

    Jesus did not deny that he was a prophet. If you want to deny it, @AnonyMous, that's between you and him.

  • KalebOutWest

    Like so many words in Hebrew, there is a basic root to the word for "prophet" that it shares with Arabic.

    Abu in Arabic is "speak" or "talk." There is a play of this meaning in the original character from a 1940 version of the film from which the Disney animated version is based on (which many people are not aware).

    According to Disney's Aladdin Wiki Fandom:

    In Linda Woolverton's version of the story, there was an elderly man called "Blind Abu", named after a thief in the 1940 film The Thief of Bagdad. John Musker and Ron Clements, who joined the Aladdin project as directors, felt that Woolverton's screenplay was better suited for live-action, featured too many humans, and lacked characters that could take advantage of the medium of animation. To remedy the issue, Musker and Clements added a monkey sidekick for Aladdin, named "Abu"—after the scrapped character from Woolverton's treatment. Abu was developed as somewhere between realistic and anthropomorphic; he does not speak full sentences, but occasionally utters broken phrases and displays human emotions.

    The fact that "Abu" means "talk" but that Abu doesn't really do this except for a few muttered phrases is a joke that takes a bit of thinking. You either have to be someone familiar with Hebrew, Arabic, Ladino or the original film and characters to get the joke.

    Being a Sephardic Jew, my mother tongue is Ladino. The words of that Jewish language are made up of Hebrew, Spanish, and Arabic.

  • KalebOutWest

    "Abu" can be a term of endearment for Father, so be careful how you use it (literally in this sense, "I am the father of you" or "you are the 'father of' me...).

    "Blind Abu" in the original film was a dear old blind man who could be a robber when not looking, but "Abu" is just a blabber mouth, and that's the joke. It's a play on words because of the double meaning. I forgot to add that.

    EDIT: The philology is as follows...You might be familiar with "abba" ("father") in Hebrew which is "abu" in Arabic. But the basis for "abu" is simply "[the] word" or "phrase/talk," which is where the root got borrowed for the Hebrew "nabu" for the word "prophet."--See HebrewVersity: Hebrew Meaning of the Word "Prophet"

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