Origin of Life (page 40)

cofty

Jws literally believe that god made Adams body out of clay and then infused it with an ethereal force called spirit. What could possibly be more irrational or anti scientific?

Ruby456

cofty

neshamah= breath not spirit. so no ethereal force in the way you mean is called for in JW doctrine regarding life.

Empirically all that is lacking from the clay shape was air and this for the ancients was verifiable. so they reached a rational hypothesis that to make air get into the body one needed an outside influence which they called God. so no irrationality here.

cofty you have not been convincing on this re Jehovahs witnesses. you'd be better off focusing on something supernatural and more irrational like satan the devil, the demons and how they impersonate people like Saul calling up Samuel for instance

cofty

neshamah= breath not spirit. so no ethereal force in the way you mean is called for in JW doctrine regarding life - Ruby

" the spirit is the force that brings our body to life. Also, like electricity, the spirit has no feeling and cannot think. It is an impersonal force." - Bible Teach Book

So just to review, you assert the WT do not teach that the spirit is a force.

The latest Watchtower publication on the topic says IT IS AN IMPERSONAL FORCE.

JWs have always taught that god infused Adam's body with an impersonal "life-force" called "spirit". This force is exactly analogous with electricity. It comes exclusively from god the life-giver. Since the animation of Adam the principle has been life begets life.

For this exact reason JWs would never accept that scientists could perform a resurrection. The hurdle is not just technical but theological. Likewise new life emerging from rocks without the spirit of life being given by the life-giver is a theological impossibility for WT dogma.

These facts are among the most basic of all JW doctrines.

you'd be better off focusing on...

You would be better off focusing on facts.

slimboyfat

Ruby said WT don't teach that the spirit is a force?

Jws literally believe that god made Adams body out of clay and then infused it with an ethereal force called spirit. What could possibly be more irrational or anti scientific?

JWs certainly believe in the supernatural but it is a matter of degree. There is a spectrum from mysticism to rationalism. The reformation, for example, is widely interpreted as being a step away from mysticism, and toward rationalism, as was the adoption of monotheism two millennia previously. Protestants still believed in the Bible and the supernatural, but they got rid of saints and icons and a lot of the mythical aspects that had grown up. At the extreme rational end of the mythical to rational spectrum you've got Unitarians.

No one is saying JWs deny the supernatural. But they are definitely toward the rational rather than the mystical end of the spectrum. They believe that reality can be understood by rational deduction and reading the Bible, not by mystical experiences or pilgrimages or miraculous occurrences.

cofty

SBF - There are more posts on this thread involving your attempts to derail it than there are posts dealing with the topic.

According to WT doctrine

God infused Adam's body with an impersonal force called spirit.
This force is exactly analogous with electricity.
It comes exclusively from god the life-giver.
Since the animation of Adam, the principle has been life begets life.
JWs would never accept that scientists could perform a resurrection - the hurdle is not just technical but theological.
Likewise new life emerging from rocks without the spirit of life being given by the life-giver is a theological impossibility for WT dogma.

John_Mann

Biological evolution doesn't need any direct supernatural intervention in the already created matter.

IMHO the origin of life is related to darwinian evolution too.

Science itself can explain anything about it.

Of course one can say the mutations could be controlled metaphysically. Anyway they would still be perceived as random in science.

slimboyfat

Your initial post asked what the response would be if scientists managed to demonstrate the emergence of life. I pointed out that a recent WT brochure answers this question.

Think of the challenge facing researchers who feel that life arose by chance. They have found some amino acids that also appear in living cells. In their laboratories, they have, by means of carefully designed and directed experiments, manufactured other more complex molecules. Ultimately, they hope to build all the parts needed to construct a “simple” cell. Their situation could be likened to that of a scientist who takes naturally occurring elements; transforms them into steel, plastic, silicone, and wire; and constructs a robot. He then programs the robot to be able to build copies of itself. By doing so, what will he prove? At best, that an intelligent entity can create an impressive machine.
Similarly, if scientists ever did construct a cell, they would accomplish something truly amazing—but would they prove that the cell could be made by accident? If anything, they would prove the very opposite, would they not?

The same brochure also states the "life from life" principle. And they argue on the next page that such a scenario would demonstrate their point.

If the chemicals in the experiment represent the earth’s early environment and the molecules produced represent the building blocks of life, whom or what does the scientist who performed the experiment represent? Does he or she represent blind chance or an intelligent entity?

What the WT objects to is the idea that life could arise by its own by "chance". Scientists creating life in a laboratory would not meet this test in their view. The contrast is between an "intelligent entity" creating life and it arising by accident or by "chance".

All scientific evidence to date indicates that life can come only from previously existing life. To believd that even a “simple” living cell arose by chance from nonliving chemicals requires a huge leap of faith.

https://download-a.akamaihd.net/files/media_books/d0/lf_E.pdf

Ruby456

slim jws do teach that spirit is a force just not an ethereal force in the sense of ethereal being irrational, mysterious and otherworldly.

cofty keeps showing how rational their view is, the only irrational part being, according to Cofty's analysis imo is that they say God put this force into them, but as the Genesis account equates this with breath (neshamah) once again the emphasis is on something impersonal and natural like electricity.

DATA-DOG

Arguing about JW theology is an exercise in futility. Are Dubs rational? Let's see:

1) Humans in existence for 6,000 years.

2) Refusal of life-saving medical treatment in the "name" of God.

3) A man prays to God for help in finding a leak, yet children starve.

Need I go on? We could literally do this all day.

Dubs are the most "materialistic" branch of Xianity, in my opinion. The Bible Teach dogma of the soul is an excellent example. JWism seeks to separate the Soul into two parts, body and spirit.

The Bible teaches no such thing. The Bible ( just like the other ancient texts on which it is based ) teaches that humans ARE souls. What is a soul? It's spirit/body. It's exactly like Yin-Yang. There is no Yin and Yang, it's Yin-Yang. When an Xian "dies" they trade their physical body for a spiritual one, so they are still a spirit/body. They are transformed in the blink of an eye, according to Paul.. ( ahem...)

Anyway, as far as being rationalists, Dubs do like to exchange the "magic" of the Bible for materialistic explanations. They take the miraculous fun out of everything.

For example, "How did life get here?", you may ask a Dub, followed by various scientific discussions.

The Dub looks at you, knowingly, and says, "Jehovah is the Great Scientist! Now it's time for a break! Those Quicktrip taquitos won't eat themselves!!!"

DD

Ruby456

yay data-dog you scored a like from me

Origin of Life

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