JW TV, this month about evolution

by bohm 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    I wonder if one day the Watchtower will take a similar stand as the rest of the worlds religion and acknowledge that evolution is fact and the creation story was a metaphor.

    I wondered the same CookieMonster but if they started to dilute the hard edged ignorance there would only be a kind of fluffy pulp left in the Watchtower.

    Both present and new JW victims want something stronger, more radical, to get their teeth into. Perhaps it's masochism at work...like self harming your brain...believe in something really stupid!

  • bohm

    On the positive side, the question of left-handedness of amino acids is fascinating. Talk origins give a good summary:



    1. The amino acids that are used in life, like most other aspects of living things, are very likely not the product of chance. Instead, they likely resulted from a selection process. A simple peptide replicator can amplify the proportion of a single handedness in an initially random mixture of left- and right-handed fragments (Saghatelian et al. 2001; TSRI 2001). Self-assemblies on two-dimensional surfaces can also amplify a single handedness (Zepik et al. 2002). Serine forms stable clusters of a single handedness which can select other amino acids of like handedness by subtituting them for serine; these clusters also incorporate other biologically important molecules such as glyceraldehyde, glucose, and phosphoric acid (Takats et al. 2003). An excess of handedness in one kind of amino acid catalyzes the handedness of other organic products, such as threose, which may have figured prominently in proto-life (Pizzarello and Weber 2004).

    2. Amino acids found in meteorites from space, which must have formed abiotically, also show significantly more of the left-handed variety, perhaps from circularly polarized UV light in the early solar system (Engel and Macko 1997; Cronin and Pizzarello 1999). The weak nuclear force, responsible for beta decay, produces only electrons with left-handed spin, and chemicals exposed to these electrons are far more likely to form left-handed crystals (Service 1999). Such mechanisms might also have been responsible for the prevalence of left-handed amino acids on earth.

    3. The first self-replicator may have had eight or fewer types of amino acids (Cavalier-Smith 2001). It is not all that unlikely that the same handedness might occur so few times by chance, especially if one of the amino acids was glycine, which has no handedness.

    4. Some bacteria use right-handed amino acids, too (McCarthy et al. 1998).

    Basically, living things function badly with a mix of left and right-hand amino acids. This creates a selection pressure towards organisms that uses either eventually causing one form to be dominant. On top of that there are other factors that favors the production of left-handed acids (they are more commonly found in space than their right-handed counterpart, see http://www.nature.com/news/force-of-nature-gave-life-its-asymmetry-1.15995) thus it is not unexpected (and certainly not difficult to explain!) why we have mostly left-handed amino acids in life today; its more about choosing the right explanation from a set of competing explanations.

    It is therefore either dishonest or grossly incompetent when it is claimed that this somehow proves creation...

    Btw. did anyone notice the "left-handedness of amino acids" argument is lifted directly from the "Life? How did it get here" book?

  • cognisonance
    Btw. did anyone notice the "left-handedness of amino acids" argument is lifted directly from the "Life? How did it get here" book?

    It's also in Is there a Creator who Cares about You?

  • cognisonance
    based on the theory of evolution we would expect to see an abundance of transitional forms to be present in the fossil record. But when we do look at the fossil evidence we just don't see it. We see that the major species come into existence at specific times and their form and structure is still exactly the same as their form and structure today.

    While evolutionary theory does make such predictions (and as Cofty showed Tiktaalik is one such example). The problem with this statement is that it fails to acknowledge that fossilization is extremely rare, is most likely to happen to species that were abundant and around for a long time, and we have only discovered a tiny fraction of the fossils that did form. We keep finding new fossils that match the predictions of evolution theory.

    It ignores that evolution does not always happen at a gradual pace. Punctuated equilibrium is the other mode where evolution happens rather quickly (thousands of years, not millions). As a result fossils are unlikely to be recorded in such a tiny geological time frame.

  • slimboyfat
    In Europe rejection of evolution has long been a fringe viewpoint, and the United States seems to be making progress in the same direction. So yes it must be increasingly difficult for JWs to remain committed to JW style creationism in the face of dis confirmation in school and media.
  • Vidiot

    "...their form and structure is still exactly the same as their form and structure today..."

    So, prehistoric birds look just like modern-day birds?


    Jeezus, it's like they're not even trying anymore.

  • Vidiot

    Half Banana - "...if they started to dilute the hard edged ignorance there would only be a kind of fluffy pulp left in the Watchtower..."


    Genesis-as-literal-history is so irrevocably intertwined with the rest of WT theology, it's virtually impossible to disentangle the two.

    They'd pretty much have to start over from scratch...

    ...and at this point, the Org probably wouldn't survive the attempt.

  • bohm

    Vidiot I was shocked too but I am really sure I transcribed it correctly. But it was said by someone with a PhD so witness can either accept it (he is a really smart doctor man derp) or if they google some of the many transitional fossils they can just say he is not speaking for the org...

    If someone was saying that to me in real life I would immediately ask him to imagine how a hypothetical transitional fossil whale might look like..

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