thanks manon never been cyber-hugged
What would you call a person who drinks to the point of near-unconsciousness? every week?
I would call that person an alcoholic. It is painful to watch a loved one destroy themselves. My sincerest sympathies and best wishes go out to you. Try to get him help, but unfortunately some people do not want it or do not admit they need it.
I've taken him to a doctor, a psychiatrist, everywhere. I had him thrown in jail. Nothing doing.
Unfortunately, until he does something himself, nothing will change. People with problems like this don't affect change for themselves until they hit bottom. The very sad part about that is that everyone around them finds "their" bottom alot sooner than folks with problems like this. They have built up many defense mechanisms to keep the pain away in addition to masking it and hiding from it through alcohol and other substances. And for many, when their problems get them into trouble- they have so many people picking up the pieces for them and they have ways of getting themselves out of things for a long time. Thus, bottom is lower and lower all the time.
Until he makes the decision to change- things will continue in this cycle and you will then be more hurt along the way and more unhealthy and co-dependent yourself.
Please take care of YOU and do what is best for you. In the state he is in he isn't even capable of making the decisions he needs to in order to take care of himself and you can only expect more of the same. You are also setting up a pattern for him to rely on- the cycle of taking him back and I know the situation you are in is very hard.
It may be that the only thing you can do is look out for yourself. One of my best friends attends Alanon meetings and she swears by them.
Wishing you the best !!!
The Bridge A Metaphor
There was a man who had given much thought to what he wanted from life. He had experienced many moods and trials. He had experimented with different ways of living, and he had had his share of both success and failure. At last, he had begun to see clearly where he wanted to go.
Diligently, he searched for the right opportunity. Sometimes he came close, only to be pushed away. Often the applied all of his strength and imagination, only to find the path hopelessly blocked. And then at last it came! But the opportunity would not wait. It would be made available only for a short time. If it were seen that he was not committed, the opportunity would not come again.
Eager to arrive, he started on his journey. With each step, he wanted to move faster; with each thought about his goal, his heart beat quicker; with each vision of what lay ahead, he found renewed vigor. Strength that had left it since his early youth returned, and desires, all kinds of desires, reawakened from their long-dormant positions.
Hurrying along, he came upon a bridge that crossed through the middle of a town. It had been built high above a river in order to protect it from the floods of spring.
He started across. Then he noticed someone coming from the opposite direction. As they moved closer, it seemed as though the other was coming to greet him. He could clearly see, however, that he did not know this other, who was dressed similarly except for something tied around his waist.
When they were within hailing distance, he could see that what the other had about his waist was a rope. It was wrapped around him many times and probably, if extended, would reach a length of 30 feet.
The other began to uncurl the rope, and, just as they were coming close, the stranger said, "Pardon me, would you be so kind as to hold the end a moment?"
Surprised by this politely phrased but curious request, he agreed without a thought, reached out, and took it.
"Thank you," said the other, who then added, "two hands now, and remember, hold tight." Whereupon, the other jumped off the bridge.
Quickly, the free-falling body hurtled the distance of the rope's length, and from the bridge, the man abruptly felt the pull. Instinctively, he held tight and was almost dragged over the side. He managed to brace himself against the edge, however, and after having caught his breath looked down at the other dangling, close to oblivion.
"What are you trying to do?" he yelled. "Just hold tight," said the other "This is ridiculous," the man thought and began trying to haul the other in. He could not get the leverage, however. It was as though the weight of the other person and the length of the rope had been carefully calculated in advance so that together they created a counterweight just beyond his strength to bring the other back to safety.
"Why did you do this?" the man called out. "Remember," said the other, "if you let go, I will be lost." "But I cannot pull you up," the man cried. "I am your responsibility," said the other. "Well, I did not ask for it," the man said. "If you let go, I am lost," repeated the other.
He began to look around for help. But there was no one. How long would he have to wait? Why did this happen to befall him now, just as he was on the verge of true success? He examined the side, searching for a place to tie the rope. Some protrusion, perhaps, or maybe a hole in the boards. But the railing was unusually uniform in shape; there were no spaces between the boards. There was no way to get rid of this newfound burden, even temporarily.
What do you want?" he asked the other hanging below. "Just your help," the other answered. "How can I help? I cannot pull you in, and there is no place to tie the rope so that I can go and find someone to help me help you." "I know that. Just hang on; that will be enough. Tie the rope around your waist; it will be easier."
Fearing that his arms could not hold out much longer, he tied the rope around his waist. "Why did you do this?" he asked again. "Don't you see what you have done? What possible purpose could you have in mind?" "Just remember," said the other, "my life is in your hands."
What should he do? "If I let go, all my life I will know that I let this other die. If I stay, I risk losing my momentum toward my own long-sought-after salvation. Either way, this will haunt me forever." With ironic humor he thought to die himself, instantly, to jump off the bridge while he was still holding on. "That would teach this fool." But he wanted to live and live fully. "What a choice I have to make; How shall I ever decide?"
As time went by, still no one came. The critical moment of decision was drawing near. To show his commitment to his own goals, he would have to continue on his journey now. It was already almost too late to arrive in time. But what a terrible choice to have to make!
A new thought occurred to him. While he could not pull this other up solely by his own efforts, if the other would shorten the rope from his end by curling it around his waist again and again, together, they could do it! Actually, the other could do it by himself, so long as he, standing on the bridge, kept it still and steady.
"Now listen," he shouted down. "I think I know how to save you." And he explained his plan. But the other wasn't interested. "You mean you won't help? But I told you I cannot pull you up myself, and I don't think I can hang on much longer either." "You must try," the other shouted back in tears. "If you fail, I die!"
The point of decision had arrived. What should he do? "My life or this other's?" And then a new idea. A revelation. So new, in fact, it seemed heretical, so alien was it to his traditional way of thinking.
"I want you to listen carefully," he said, "because I mean what I am about to say. I will not accept the position of choice for your life, only for my own; the position of choice for your own life I hereby give back to you."
"What do you mean?" the other asked, afraid. "I mean, simply, it's up to you. You decide which way this ends. I will become the counterweight. You do the pulling and bring yourself up. I will even tug a little from here." He began unwinding the rope from around his waist and braced himself anew against the side.
"You cannot mean what you say!" the other shrieked. "You would not be so selfish. I am your responsibility. What could be so important that you would let someone die? Do not do this to me!"
He waited a moment. There was not change in the tension of the rope.
"I accept your choice," he said, at last, and freed his hands.
- Edwin H. Friedman
From the book "Friedman's Fables"
Definitely Al-anon, and look out for yourself, and your kids (if you have any). This is behavior you don't want to introduce to another generation.
I hope it gets better and works out for you two, if you want it to. ((((((((((((((Soledad)))))))))))))) SEEK COUNSELING! You need professionals to help you work through this.
Whoa, XW, that was a powerful story. It reminded me of my dad. And that is one of the hardest things in the world to do, to let someone take responsibility for their own life, especially if you've been raised to be an enabler. Ultimately we all stand and fall on our own, before each other and before God.
Soledad, get thee to a therapist posthaste! You have to work on YOU. You cannot drag this man into sobriety. He has to want it bad enough to do it himself. I wish you success, my dear.
You have always been one of my favorite posters. I'm so sorry to find out that you are going through this.
No matter what other people tell you, you need to take some time ALONE in peace and quiet and make a decision. Only you can decide what course you should take.
THANKS everyone for your kind replies I really needed that. XW I will print that story it's really amazing. Thank you Thank you all so much from the bottom of my heart !!
I don't post very often. However I feel compelled to tell you about a book called Games Alcoholics Play. It's been out for a while but I don't know the authors name. I've read it and you'll be amazed at some of the information you'll find in it.
Before drunks are willing to try to do something about themselves, they've got to hit the bottom of the barrel. When they look around, there's no way to go but UP.
This means they've lost their jobs, their families, their cars, their homes, their clothing, all their friends; and when I say they've lost their families I mean the wife cannot stand the sight of the guy; the children feel nothing for him but contempt...and fear.
You've already gotten good advice. Go get yourself involved in an Al-Anon group. Fast. Like yesterday. It's going to get lots worse before it gets any better. Does your husband deny he's got a drinking problem? The odds are 99:100 that he says he doesn't. Has he been violent toward you, your children, the cat, whatever, when he's drinking? Find yourself a home for battered women, know where it is and how to get there. You'll likely need it.
And he will show up there too. Crying. Carrying flowers. Candy. Apologizing. On his knees. And odds are you'll give him "one more chance." You will give him one more chance about six or seven times and it will get worse every time, until you have to start hiding from him. This is the typical story of battered woman. I suggest that you DON'T give him "another chance" no matter how unfair you think it feels while he's there with you sobbing his eyes out and promising you the moon. It won't feel so unfair when you're back there in six weeks or so with a beautiful new shiner around your left eye, or a broken arm in a cast, or whatever, or worse. It's the "'nother chance" that emboldens him to do more of that abusive behavior. You went back last time, why not this time? And next time? You've really got to have a backbone to make this work. It ain't no rose garden, and you've got to be your family's TOTAL STRENGTH, cause it ain't coming from anywhere else, I assure you.
I suggest you go now, right now, to the library and check out Susan Forward's book "The Men Who Hate Women & The Women Who Love Them." I've literally seen this book save several women's lives. I'd send one to you, but I've given all mine away. I kept it for my female friends who were living in an abusive situation and whom I could not otherwise convince to get out. When I couldn't do it, this book usually could. Please. Get the book. You'll be so surprised you won't know what to do with yourself.
If you want to talk, send a private message or write to me at firstname.lastname@example.org
Hoping for the best for you,
Lots of different advice here and none are right or wrong. It really depends on what you think is necessary. If he has been in and out of AA then he needs a 28 day rehab. They work for some not for others. Some recovered alcoholics (dry drunks) are miserable, some aren't. Most relapse, but some don't. There is no definite cure, so you need to decide how much you want to invest of yourself into helping this person. Good luck and I wish you the best. The only correct advice is that you have to DO SOMETHING, either get out or get help, but do not let it continue as is.