The glaring inequity between the 144,000 & the Great Crowd

by deegee 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Scully

    Don't forget that the GC is also the clean up crew after surviving Armageddon(tm). This is despite the fact that Jehovah(tm) created the worldwide disaster area, and even has the ability to snap his fingers and clean up his own damned mess and doesn't.

    Seems like the GC gets the short end of the stick in more ways than one.

  • myelaine

    The bible text says that the GC is taken "out of the tribulation" finding themselves before the throne IN HEAVEN and that the 144,000 are sealed ON EARTH just before cataclysmic events.

    since the bible refers to people and places as dry and dead if they don't have "living waters" flowing through them. Then it isn't a stretch to see that the valley of dry bones are people who don't have "living waters" flowing through them.

    It's possible that the burial in ezekiel is also a metaphor for baptisim as the baptisim is a physical representation of a spiritual reality. Dying to the old man, burial, and being resurrected to new life in Christ.

  • nibbled

    Smiddy, regarding Satan and demons vs. humans:

    the demons kept begging Jesus not to order them to go into the abyss.—Luke 8:31

    God didn't spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment—2 Peter 2:4

    [Christ] was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.—1 Peter 3:18-20
    and [God] has kept, with eternal chains in darkness for the judgment of the great day, the angels who did not keep their own position but deserted their proper dwelling.—Jude 1:6
    And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time. ... And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.—Rev 20:3,10
    You must understand this, that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and indulging their own lusts and saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since our ancestors died, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation!” They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago and an earth was formed out of water and by means of water, through which the world of that time was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the present heavens and earth have been reserved for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the godless.

    But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and everything that is done on it will be disclosed.—2 Peter 3:3-10

    Meanwhile, I agree with Bobcat, the problem is in the WT's interpretation.

    God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.—1 Thessalonians 5:9

    Regarding what the bible says about the 144,000 vs. the Great Crowd, I believe...

    • The 144,000 are sealed and die, thus the first resurrection (Revelation 20:4,5)
    • Whereas the Great Crowd is saved out of the Great Tribulation (Revelation 7:10)
    • The Great Tribulation happens before Armageddon, thus
    • The Great Crowd is saved before Armageddon
    • The 144,000 are kings reigning on earth (Revelation 5:10, Matthew 6:10)
    • The Great Crowd are priests serving in the temple (Rev 7:15)
    You have made them—those from every tribe and tongue and people and nation—to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.—Rev 5:9,10

    The Kingdom is the Great Crowd and the 144,000.

    We live in temporary suffering, chosen to have a chance to choose.

    He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world for us to be holy and blameless before Him, in love having predestined us for divine adoption as sons to Himself through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will... — Eph 1:4,5

    The inequity I see is the unbelievable chances of being chosen—not to have faith and believe—but to be present.

    "Things into which angels longed to look" () we may experience.

    After it's one thing to receive eternal life and salvation—all who believe—and a whole other thing to actually live through the experience—the Great Crowd.

    There will be a Great Crowd who will never die.

    I want to be one.

    You went forth for the salvation of Your people,
    For the salvation of Your anointed.
    You struck the head of the house of the evil
    To lay him open from thigh to neck.
    Selah. —Hab 3:13
  • smiddy


    Their are a number of scriptures that clearly show Satan and presumably the Demons as having access to both the heavens and the earth in tempting and misleading humans and the nations up until and including this century.

    Just to cite a few of many more.


    Job 1:6









    That`s just a few scriptures that show quite clearly that he has had free reign over earth and heaven to actively decieve and mislead humans as he did to Eve according to the Bible

    Of course the Bible could be full of contadictions ,

  • prologos
    deegee: "There is a glaring inequity between the 144,000 & the Great Crowd (GC):
    The GC will experience:
    1. The Great Tribulation - a gruelling/horrifying time which has never occurred before.
    2. Armageddon. -- but the 1444 000 wont.

    think about that, in another way: Jesus said that the anointed generation "will not pass away until " The GT and Armageddon are all complete. now, above, you say the anointed will miss out on the fireworks? May be you and the WT ( you quoted) are wrong, may be Jesus is wrong, may be the Bible is wrong? which is it,? or even all three?

  • scratchme1010

    There is a glaring inequity between the 144,000 & the Great Crowd (GC):

    The GC will experience:

    1. The Great Tribulation - a gruelling/horrifying time which has never occurred before.

    2. Armageddon.

    3. A thousand years of “loving” molding and refinement.

    4. A second Armageddon at the end of the thousand years.

    The 144,000 will experience NONE of these things.

    Isn't it strange that the GC has to prove themself so much but the 144,000 don't???!!!!

    Not to mention that this whole mess supposedly started by Adam, Even and Satan. How's that for fairness?

  • prologos

    If you take all the prerequisites for ruling immortally with Christ, all from revelation, the most stringent is in Rev 20. you have to die by the ax, I guess a guillotine would make the class. so, one sure way to make the grade is for partakers to take on ISIS, you might even end up starring in a video to prove your genuine candidacy.

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