Beliefs About What Caused the Universe
Supernatural cause and effect is not believed in globally, and that is what you are arguing.
Is something that exists outside of space and time supernatural? Says who?
Our space and time universe had a beginning. All known beginnings had a cause. What could be more natural than that fact?
Are we only to believe things until they violate the pre-set boundaries of our ideology? Who made up that rule that I should obey him? What kind of intellectual freedom is that?
Why limit what may have happened to what you can 'imagine'..
physics is proving that reality is far from what anyone could have imagined.
Lets have some humility
Perry, we all know you believe God is the supernatural cause that was the beginning of the space-time Universe.
You doth protest too much with your pseudo-scientific reductive reasoning.
The pieces of your argument don't fit, we have provided alternate points of view which are not acceptable to you, and so there is no sense in my continuing.
With all due respect, no one has ever in the history of the world provided an example of something beginning without a cause..... not to mention our brief discussion time here on this thread.
I see no logical reason to suspend belief in "cause & effect" facts as you have done.
Beginnings have causes, independent of whether or not they are convenient to our belief system.
Well, then it seems you've ended this thread as you've started it: entirely sure of yourself.
I'm sure that Materialism eventually contradicts itself.... and all by itself.
Quit being consistent with observation and the laws of Thermodynamics Perry and just accept "science"!
How do creationists explain virtual particles with reference to their unique understanding of the second law of thermodynamics these days? Is it still silence and a quick change of subject? Or how about the fun part where invoking the second law means you're making God die? Just curious.
Perry: every argument you make for something needing a beginning is a contradiction and an argument against your own belief in a super being with no beginning.
So carry on, tell us more about the god that can't exist based on your own logic.