"...they can give you counsel...but it would not be proper to give them counsel in the same areas, right?"
EXACTLY!
And that is one of many reasons why I am FedUp!
Crossing the Elders
by Cold Steel 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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FedUpJW
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freddo
However good and kind and caring elders are, do not forget that they are deluded. Deluded to the extent that whatever they tell you privately, however kind and reasonable and caring - all that will go out of the window when the C.O. or the Branch tells them to act differently.
They will disfellowship their own mothers if the CO or the branch lean on them to do so.
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Londo111
The vast majority of elders are likely in their authentic self sincere people with good intentions. And as such, they may be nice people. Of course, everyone, even people who’ve done some less than nice things, has a nice side when the circumstances are favorable for it.
But here’s the thing: the individual that is in the role of elder is governed by the rules of the Watchtower Society and its Hierarchy, rather than their own individual conscience. Sure, their own personality can provide some variation, but it is sort of like a dog on a short lease. They only have so much leeway.
Elders are given a confidential rulebook, “Shepard the Flock of God”, which give the rules they must implement. They also have letters from the Branch, giving them further rules. They are given training at Kingdom Ministry school. The circuit overseer rolls through at least twice a year and reviews how compliant the elders are. Other elders are always watching and could report the person to the CO or the Branch. Any who are out of bounds are removed.
There is no room disagreement with Watchtower “guidelines”. That would be disagreeing with the “Faithful Slave”. It is viewed better to comply with the Slave even if their decision about something is mistaken, then to disobey the channel God has appointed. There is little room in obeying the Watchtower’s rules for personal feelings, of saying “I don’t like the way that was handled” or “that’s not very nice”. They have to do things “by the book”. They have to suppress their individual conscience.
When it’s time to vote, on a judicial committee, or if about another matter, if the elder is in the minority, it is sometimes encouraged for them to change their vote to go along with the majority.
Elders are expected to keep an eye on “the flock”, head off trouble if they see someone who may be “going astray”--and that is, those who aren’t complying with the written and unwritten rules of the Watchtower. Growing a beard, going to a school dance, considering higher education, dating without a chaperone, not reporting enough hours, ect…
Elders are not given real or extensive training like clergy in other denominations. Many are painters, window washers, construction workers…but they often encounter intense problems that require professional help. They cannot provide real help to people. And many times, this “help” comes in the form of a judicial committee with ultimately expels people in the time they need help the most. In reality, their main function is as an organizational policemen, rather than “shepherds” providing pastoral care.
Therefore: even the nicest, sincerest, humble elder can end up doing some pretty not nice things, things they otherwise would not do of their own accord. It is not them, it is the Watchtower, ultimately, the Governing Body who is the casual agent for their behavior.
Some elders who struggle with their conscience, end up stepping down. And some of those wake up, and are here and on other exJW forums.
Throughout history, many otherwise nice people have even committed outright atrocities because they believe they were serving the greater good.
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Londo111
I should add…
Although lip service is given that elders are not “above” their fellow brothers and sisters, and they are not supposed to be position minded, ect, ect—human nature is human nature.
Being an elder can become a source of religious pride. Any who might be inclined to disagree should examine why then being removed or stepping down is viewed a source of great shame.
It’s not easy to become an elder. It takes years of work to be appointed…and it takes allot of work to maintain that position. They must be viewed as exemplary under the Watchtower mindset. Therefore, they are on a pedestal of sorts, despite any denial to the contrary.
Sometimes being an elder involves visiting neighboring congregations and giving talks and then being taken out to eat by the congregation's hospitality.
They are complimented for their talks, ect…And if they work very hard, are liked by the CO, they might be given a part on the circuit assembly.
Human nature being what it is, this pedestal is addicting. Compliments are addicting. Recognition and approval is addicting. So yes, this can go to some people’s heads.
JWs are taught not to strive for any “worldly” achievements. But in the congregation, they are given the illusion of achievement that they are denied in the outside world. This theocratic version of achievement can go to some people’s heads as well.
There is also a segment of humanity that gravitate toward having strict rules for everything and complying with the letter of the law no matter how unreasonable. Some of these become elders.
Therefore, some elders do display a Barney Fife mentality. Believing themselves humble, they’ve a great amount of pride in their position which they are addicted to, and they enforce the tiniest rule, or hint of a rule.
The first rule is: Obey all rules!
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problemaddict 2
There are the really good ones, and the really bad ones. Then.....everyone else. They are subject to a system that makes them feel special, even if they technicslly know better. Their actions are laid out for them (flock book). Rarely do they ever think for themselves. The ones that do.....dont last.
Remember, elders are taught they will be "chieftains" in the new world and are the "stars" in the hand of Christ in Revelation.
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Cold Steel
Doubtfull1799 » The anointed ones are no longer members of the F&DS - this was a recent change of doctrine (in 2013 I think), only the GB are now the F&DS.
For years the heavenly class was billed as Jehovah's administrative arm. They were to be resurrected as glorified spirits while everyone else was part of the great crowd, destined to be resurrected in physical non-glorified bodies that, while immortal, are greatly limited in where and how they can go.
The JW artists depict them as smiling, having reunions, petting lions and playing musical instruments. But there are no roads or motor vehicles...just people. Meanwhile, those who are of the anointed class are more like God than humans (1 John 3:2). For some reason, they, like the resurrected Jesus, can make themselves physical beings or spiritual beings, traverse and comprehend the Universe and greatly transcend the abilities of those on Earth. Why should these people be subject to the earthly elders when they are destined to so much more?
If I were part of the heavenly/anointed class, I'd be asking who the Governing Body is to exclude me? After all, GB members are my colleagues, right? And in the world to come, my destiny is so much more than most elders, who are destined to a mere earthly existence. If I'm subject to the same chain of command, why is my eternal destiny so much more?
It's quite a change in doctrine.
Londo111 » Elders are expected to keep an eye on “the flock,” head off trouble if they see someone who may be “going astray”-- and that is, those who aren’t complying with the written and unwritten rules of the Watchtower. Growing a beard, going to a school dance, considering higher education, dating without a chaperone, not reporting enough hours, ect…
Amazing.
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Londo111
It is! Now the "anointed" along with the "other sheep" are considered "the domestics".
JWs do not have have personal religious beliefs. They have to believe what the Governing Body (aka Faithful Slave) tells them to believe. They have to behave as the Slave tells them to behave. Or else.
JWs have to be ready to embrace "new light" at any time, even if it is a major leap from the old light.
"At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not."
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waton
Why should these people be subject to the earthly elders when they are destined to so much more? CS:
The idea was, that if you lived by wt rules to a t, you cemented your right to be in heaven. i.e. : A lady anointed being submissive to a husband, even though limited as he is, would be a good, proven candidate to excel in heaven. so: an anointed is mandated to live up to wt expectations for the role they are fixed in now, and "Jesus" is watching.
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Cold Steel
Londo111 » JWs do not have have personal religious beliefs. They have to believe what the Governing Body (aka Faithful Slave) tells them to believe. They have to behave as the Slave tells them to behave. Or else.
That's amazing. What happens if you don't believe a particular interpretation or you have a differing interpretation? If you're in a class and say, "Couldn't Paul have meant [fill in the blank] rather than [Watchtower teaching]?" Then you point out that the FDS has said it's not inspired and in some cases could be wrong? Would you be called on it then or later would you get laywaid by an elder?
JWs have to be ready to embrace "new light" at any time, even if it is a major leap from the old light.
Okay. You're in a class. Some "new light" is being discussed and you mention that you had always believed the new teaching, but had been "counseled" for teaching it in a class two years before. Would that cause trouble or would people be impressed that you were ahead of the curve?
The churches of Christ have a saying that goes: "Where the Bible speaks, we speak; and where the Bible is silent, we are silent." Are you saying that the Society has a set interpretation for every single passage in the Bible??
"At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not."
Hmmm...that completely makes no sense because it clearly implies that they get help from on high in their decisions. Again, they've said they receive no revelation like the apostles did, nor are they inspired. So how can they say that, then say the above? What they're saying here is that they're connected, plugged in, if you will, to the Holy Spirit, but at the same time they don't receive revelation. They can't have it both ways.
Can they??