RUSSIA: (7 April 2017) Day 3 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

by Drearyweather 51 Replies latest jw friends

  • jwleaks
    jwleaks

    JW lawyer argues that in the past 26 years since official recognition of the religion, and in the previous 100 years of unofficial existence, there has been no proven harm against anyone from the activities of JWs.

    [On a side note the JWs don't consider death as a result of following their teachings, such as refusal of blood transfusion for a child, as 'proven harm'.]

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather

    I'm getting confused. Yesterday, while arguing about medical treatment, why didn't the justice ministry present all the cases of deaths caused due to blood transfusion refusals? or is it that they don't have such data?

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather

    11:39

    Zhenkov draws attention to the fact that cases related to the recognition of the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses as extremist have been appealed to the ECHR. 22 complaints and combined into one production. In response to a request from the Strasbourg Court, the Russian Federation formally acknowledged that the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses does not contain open calls for violence.

    11:45

    The Supreme Court repeatedly ruled that the cases of recognizing the materials of Jehovah's Witnesses as extremist did not affect the rights of the "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia", and these decisions were not abolished. And the Ministry of Justice now believes that on the contrary, it affects the rights of the center. But this is a mistake.

  • TheWonderofYou
    TheWonderofYou

    "proven" harm of psychological oppression of the own members, of course no physical harm of members or others except the nearly inforcement of members to not accept any blood products.

    http://watchtowerdocuments.org/why-it-is-dangerous-to-associate-with-jehovahs-witnesses-speech/

    http://watchtowerdocuments.org/woman-allowed-assisted-suicide-why/

    protecting offenders of child abuse more than the victims, victims must tell intime details at a cult-own judicial hearing and furhter have contact with the offender in the same local organisation.

    cutting of family ties if you want change religion, depression, suicides possible

    strategic method in education of avoiding higher education of children of JW

    ad criticizing other religions: The "extreme" criticizing attitude or even denunciation of the catolic and orthodox churches in the literature is well known, naming all other religions "harlot babylon", speaking of the soon coming innihalation of firstly the old churches and the clergy-class by the actually the United Nations-allied troups was and is long the recipe of distinction or fantasy of the JW-writers, a unbearable dogma in the 21 century.

  • jwleaks
    jwleaks
    Dreary: I'm getting confused. Yesterday, while arguing about medical treatment, why didn't the justice ministry present all the cases of deaths caused due to blood transfusion refusals? or is it that they don't have such data?

    Laws in Russia were only introduced in 2016 that make it a criminal offence to encourage others to not undertake lawful medical treatment. There have been no cases since the law was introduced which is why the JWs focused on 'no cases'.

    Just for the record: I do not believe 'banning' JWs are the answer to anything. In fact I support freedom of religion even if Jehovah God himself does not.

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather

    Laws in Russia were only introduced in 2016 that make it a criminal offence to encourage others to not undertake lawful medical treatment. There have been no cases since the law was introduced which is why the JWs focused on 'no cases'.

    If so, then why did the Ministry bring this point up?

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather

    11:55

    Lawyer Zhenkov documents that the printed materials were never imported into the country after they were recognized as extremist. This also applies to all episodes that the Ministry of Justice imputes to believers in their lawsuit.

    12:05

    When almost every publication in the country was imported to the center of Jehovah's Witnesses, there were results of examinations that did not reveal any signs of extremism in them. Thus, the center could not foresee that these or other materials can be considered extremist. Legislation is based on the principles of legal certainty and predictability of the consequences of certain actions. However, in the actions of state bodies against Jehovah's Witnesses, this principle is clearly not observed.

    12:10

    Speech representative Respondent Toporov. "The extremism of Jehovah's Witnesses remains extremism on paper." No victims, victims or victims of alleged "extremist" activities, either the Prosecutor's Office or the Justice Ministry could not have imagine

    12:12

    Toporov refutes the thesis of the Ministry of Justice on "financing of extremism". The financial aid directed by the LRO was directed to the service of liturgical buildings, payment of public utilities, sometimes to help believers who suffered from natural disasters.

  • jwleaks
    jwleaks
    Lawyer Zhenkov documents that the printed materials were never imported into the country after they were recognized as extremist.

    That's correct. The banned extremist material was actually seized by customs before it was technically imported. The JWs ran numerous articles on this criticizing the Ministry of Justice for seizing the material.

    EDIT: I just went to the JWs official news release on this subject to provide a link only to find the entire article has been deleted. [UPDATE two of my posts down as I was incorrect. Sorry JWs.]

  • Drearyweather
    Drearyweather

    That's correct. The banned extremist material was actually seized by customs before it was technically imported. The JWs ran numerous articles on this criticizing the Ministry of Justice for seizing the material.

    I'm not sure. Have JW's tried to import literature into Russia after they had been declared as extremist? Or is it that Russia blocked the shipment, sent it to the experts and then declared them as extremist?

    On jw.org,

    On July 14, 2015, Russian customs officials took an unprecedented step against Jehovah’s Witnesses by denying importation of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, published by the Witnesses in the Russian language. Since March 2015, Russian authorities have stopped all shipments of the Witnesses’ religious publications, even though none of the literature intended for import is banned in Russia.

    https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/russia/russia-blocks-bibles-20150721/

    The timeline of the literature seizing done by Russia:

    https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/russia/censorship-russian-bibles-literature/




  • jwleaks
    jwleaks
    Speech representative Respondent Toporov. "The extremism of Jehovah's Witnesses remains extremism on paper."

    My reply (tongue-in-cheek): I agree. The extremism of Jehovah's Witnesses remains extremism on paper, especially on the paper in The Watchtower magazine.