Opening doors, putting your foot in the door and other dangerous activities

by Anony Mous 16 Replies latest social current

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  Anony Mous

  I was listening to the news and there is this big brouhaha about someone shooting someone through their front door. Apparently the person tried to open the door of an elderly person, scaring the homeowner and they shot a gun injuring the person. Obvious castle doctrine case.

  Which made me remember a rather overzealous old pioneer that used the same tactics when he knew the homeowners were home but didn’t want to come to the door, he would start opening the storm doors and try to see if the door was unlocked so he could yell inside. His excuse was that if they weren’t home they should lock their doors - the community service of a burglar.

  Other pioneers I knew would have the habit of putting their foot in the door so the homeowner couldn’t slam it in his face after they started their “discussion”. More than a few would “count on Jehober” and walk through gates and no trespassing signs.

  What other potentially dangerous activities, including some cases of breaking and entering, do you remember some Witlesses get involved in?
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  TonusOH

  I recall we had one or two brothers who were notorious for placing a foot in the doorway to prevent the homeowner from closing the door. But we lived in a fairly rough area and that is not something that was recommended!

  There were some apartment complexes where the lobby entrance doors were always locked, and the only way in was with a key or to get "buzzed in" by a tenant. Some brothers would buzz apartments at random, because many people would unlock the doors without checking to see who was there (no, it doesn't make sense, but they did it).
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  enoughisenough

  There was a time when I would not have any issue with going onto a screened porch ...if I were still in, I wouldn't do that.
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  carla

  I remember before my jw became a jw, a person entered our enclosed porch to knock on inside door. It was a big guy with long hair and long trench coat. It would be tantamount to walking in someone's house in my opinion. So my husband is just getting home from work and finds this long haired giant in our porch while I am trying to get rid of they guy (salesman/canvasser, whatever). Guy leaves and husband is irate! "what kind of weirdo does that?!!!! with a woman alone with small children!!" --- fast forward to now and recent past? yep, my jw is that kind of weirdo, thinks nothing of it.
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  Anony Mous

  I remember the screened in porches as well. Interesting to see how far I've come to appreciate some of those issues after leaving that people "in" still don't see a problem with. I also remember the high rise apartments where you could easily spend all morning, just sitting inside ringing 100 doorbells, waiting 1-2 minutes between each of them, people walking in and out, probably worried about their safety to see 2 big guys in trenchcoats ringing every doorbell and we were just oblivious.
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  GoUnion

  Why is this an obvious case of the castle doctrine?
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  carla

  Castle doctrine

  A castle doctrine, also known as a castle law or a defense of habitation law, is a legal doctrine that designates a person's abode or any legally occupied place as a place in which that person has protections and immunities permitting one, in certain circumstances, to use force to defend oneself against an intruder, free from legal prosecution for the consequences of the force used.Wikipedia

  ---Don't shoot the messenger, just relaying the doctrine for those who may be unfamiliar with it.
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  Anony Mous

  @GoUnion: In this particular state, if you trespass on property and attempt to open a door, the homeowner has the right to defend their property. The only open question to the jury is legally whether shooting through the door was legitimate and the trespass amounted to breaking/entering in this particular state.

  I know for example in Texas, this would've been an open and shut case, even here, the police didn't charge the homeowner and let them go after questioning until hours later, when there were riots and the local DA went after them for political reasons. It's very likely this case will still get thrown out unless they, like the Floyd case, can intimidate the jury in a particular direction with the threat of gang violence.

  Note that in EU/CA/NY/Canada and a few other states/countries you may not enjoy this right, in most states and countries however, a right to home defense is universally accepted.

  Hence my note, that I saw egregious behavior in my time going "in service", some of which I now think is a major violation of law and even decency/privacy, but back then we did believe "Jehoober would not allow us to get shot".
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  carla

  I think an example would be - A- not castle doctrine- you set up a gun to fire if the door is opened, people with cabins who get broke into have done this and it is not considered 'castle doctrine'. It doesn't work because you are only protecting your 'stuff' not life itself.

  B- you live in a house and keep a gun close by because your neighborhood is filled with crime. Somebody is attempting to get into your place and you truly believe they will harm you, you warn them and shoot, they die. In a case such as that you may use 'castle doctrine', not saying you will get off with it but you could use it. Depends on what part of the country & county you may be in. I think I remember a case of a grandma who called 911 while someone was attempting to break into her apartment through the glass doors. You can hear her telling the guy repeatedly "I'm going to shoot you!" still he came, she shot him, he died, she did not spend a day in jail.
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  GoUnion

  I know what the castle doctrine is, not sure if you can use that defense when you have a kid accidently go to the wrong address.