River flowing from the garden of Eden

by joey jojo 45 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • OrphanCrow
    Tech: Not to hijack this thread, but a related question?
    Are JW's the only people/religion that teaches the idea of no rain before the flood, and a "water canopy?
    Just wondering.....

    Yes. There are many.

    The Water canopy theory has been adopted by lots of creationists. Just do a google search for "water canopy" and all sorts of fringe sites will pop up.

    The water canopy notion originated with Isaac Vail's theories which were floating around when Russell was king of the WTS.

    Vail's books can be found on archive.org:



    Russell subscribed to Vail's theories and produced the Photodrama of Creation using Vail's theory of the water canopy.

    Vail and Russell had a shared vision and a shared interest. Vail was a "catastrophist" and believed that his theories could locate precious minerals. He was a little obsessed with the mining industry and wanted to hit it big in gold mining especially.


    Russell liked the mining industry. It was his purchase of a gold mine that is reportedly the source of the money that Rutherford used to bail out the WTS in 1918 upon his release from prison.

    Jus' a bit of trivia/history on that water canopy thing...

  • S K Ditta
    S K Ditta

    plural noun: mythologies
    a collection of myths, especially one belonging to a particular religious or cultural tradition.
    "Ganesa was the god of wisdom and success in Hindu mythology"
    synonyms:myth(s), legend(s), folklore, folk tales, folk stories, lore, tradition"no ancient culture is without its mythology"
    a set of stories or beliefs about a particular person, institution, or situation, especially when exaggerated or fictitious.

    Mythology has inspired great art. It gave humans something higher than the physical limitations of our realm, a greater meaning. Myths have their place.

    For instance, we call a man Prime Minister or President. What power do they have, if their position is considered meaningless by the army, the population, or those participating in election.

    The rivers of Eden have "nurtured" beliefs in civilization. That surely must count for something!

  • waton

    yeah, they must have surely provided a way past those pesky twirling swords at the entrances?

    The rivers of Eden have "nurtured" beliefs in civilization. That surely must count for something!
  • S K Ditta
    S K Ditta

    yeah, they must have surely provided a way past those pesky twirling swords at the entrances?

    Those swords - real or imaginary - could never do the same "real" damage to humans as the act of massacring millions in the crusades, or dropping bombs from drones.

    But if those swords inspired later readers to reflect on consequences of their actions, and choose differently, then those swords are good.

  • venus

    waton, Your quote is counterproductive [Gen. 2:5,6: "-- God had not made it rain upon the ground -- but a mist would go up from the Earth and it watered the entire surface of the ground. 7: and God formed man --"]

    God formed man out of dust … and at death he would “return to dust” (Gen 3:19) which is contradicted by Ecclesiastes 12:7 where we read “his spirit returns to God.” It means Bible is a collaborative project, where one or few philosophers wrote an initial outline and then various people worked on it changing it and tweaking it. Hence you have things such as Lot’s wife being given capital punishment for just looking back, and Peter escaping punishment for such fatal mistake of disowning the son of man three time.

  • waton

    Venus, I merely provided the reference about rain only 6000 years old, in response to stillin's question, I do not attach any imortence or veracity to any of the details of the talking snake story, it is an an interesting guideline for debunking, no more imho.The flood is a dud. eden's rivers refuted.

    Jesus' sacrifice really overcame belatedly the swords, no more.

  • James Mixon
    James Mixon

    One day it started raining, little bitty stinging rain and big ol' fat rain. Rain that flew in sideways. And sometimes rain even seemed to come straight up from underneath. Shoot, it even rained at night...Great movie. The funny thing about this story,Tigers and the Euphrates have their headwaters in the area surrounding Mt. Ararat and after sailing around for one year Noah ends up in the same area.

  • S K Ditta
    S K Ditta
    after sailing around for one year Noah ends up in the same area.

    Did he sail around? Perhaps he remained more-or-less in the same place, thankful for his existence and that of his family, as-well-as the animals with him. Quite similar to our existence on earth, actually, seen in the context of a vast universe or even the solar-system.

  • waton

    SKDitta, Carrying the mythology of those swords into modern warfare is stretching it, let us keep it in the "talking snake book" shall we? The bible story identifies the swords at Eden's entrances to be repellent to the access to the tree of life watered by the river. in Rev 20/21, the denouement, The gates are guarded by angels again, barring the access to the river, and trees of life, for the unworthy. so, River in Eden, River in the 1000 year paradise.

    impossible rivers, as this thread showed.

  • S K Ditta
    S K Ditta

    Thank you, Waton.

    Eden Restored

    22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

    Is this the scenario you refer to?

    Carrying the mythology of those swords into modern warfare is stretching it

    Not so, I believe. The implications are very real, as George Bush proved by his decisions and actions. Ever since, based on a belief system from the "talking snake" book, trillions of real dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives have been affected in actual, physical reality.

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