by stevieb1 11 Replies latest jw friends
This is for ex-JW's attending church....
How were your first impressions of a church as compared to your association at the Kingdom Hall?
How long was it after you left the WT before attending church?
Were you at first reticent about starting to attend Church?
Last but not least, do you "feel" the love from your present Christian associates and how does it compare to th "love" at the Kingdom Hall?
Regards
Steven
Stevie,
I am going to be no help to you whatsoever as I have never set foot in a Kingdom Hall. But you have brought up an issue that has always confused me.
This issue of "love" from a congregation???? I'm sorry, and please be patient with me all who answer, but why on earth do you expect love from your congregation? The people who love me are my family and very close friends. All I would hope from from the people of the church I attend would be friendship, support, respect, kindness and courtesy, perhaps affection more from those I am close to....but not love. Maybe love from God....but not from all those people. We attend the same church for a multitude of reasons, from a convenient location, to liking the service. Why would I expect that variety of perhaps 250 people who see me maybe once a week to love me?????
I don't expect the congregation to be a surrogate family. I have a real family and a busy real life where the church is a part of it, but by no means the central focus. Why would anyone expect real love from any congregation, JW or otherwise?
I am so confused.
Stevie, or do you prefer Steven?
I am surprised there haven't been a lot of posts to this thread.
I was not raised a JW but converted at age 24 - for 24 long years. I sent my DA letter in July of '94. Hard to believe I've been out almost 10 years. My daughter had been more ready to leave than I was, so she started going to a non-denominational "Christian" church (I will call this Church #1) first. I finally went with her one day, probably 2 years after my DA, and what a shock! It is a very large church for the area I live in, of about 1.5 million, currently getting around 4,000 people between 3 weekend services, (over 15,000 for Easter services), it is the church I am currently attending. They actually had *gasp* a band on the stage and people singing "praise" songs to a peppy, almost rock'n'roll beat. It was all very strange, scary and uncomfortable for me because of the brainwashing of the JWs. (I knew I couldn't go back to the stale, ritulalistic church I had been raised in, because there was nothing there for me.) I attended there sporadically, mostly when my daughter thought there was a sermon I would be interested in, or a special program (Christmas - horrors!) Some time later I went with a friend to her Pentecostal church (Church #2) (speaking in tongues, jumping around, etc.) which scared me to death, but I kept going back, and finally accepted Jesus as my personal savior at that church. Eventually my husband, who had never been a JW, decided he wanted to go to church, so we went back to Church #1 and we have been going there for about 1 1/2 yrs now.
The people at both churches were kind and non-judgemental. That is not to say that they condone immorality, taking drugs, or anything like that. The pastors at both churches have had sermons on difficult subjects, such as abortion, living together, etc. In fact, most of the members of those churches never, or in a few cases, on rare occasions, drink alcohol. Church #1, being such a large church, has many ministries - to the homeless; a food pantry for those in need; a ministry of volunteers who fix single mothers' cars. In fact, besides fixing her car, the church has given my daughter two cars over the years. They have wonderful ministries for the junior high and high school kids, as well as Sunday School and nursery service for the younger ones - so that they are not bored to tears like my kids were, and getting whacked for squirming (shame to me!)
At the kingdom hall I rarely encountered a loving attitude. It was not forthcoming from the platform - all they taught was judgement, condemnation and shunning. I worked full time, had 3 kids and and unbelieving husband, yet they wanted me out in service 3 hours every Saturday and at 5 meetings weekly. I felt so alone and guilty because I couldn't live up to their demands. At church, both #1 & #2, I don't feel guilty if I miss a Sunday - but the trouble is, I get so much from church that I hate to miss! I actually look forward to "church." Certainly a different feeling from dreading to go to the kingdom hall!
Concerned mama, if you have never been in a kingdom hall and experienced the judgemental, condeming attitudes described above, you are a very lucky person! And yes, I do feel love from the people at church, it is the love of Christ for humanity, his love for the lost and searching. As for my personal "church" friends, yes, there is definitely love and compassion flowing from them, not only to me but to people in general.
I hope this helps.
Aunthill
I have been to a few non-denominational churches, and have found them much more pleasent than a Kingdom Hall.
Big difference: People actually want to be there, as opposed to the organization telling them they must go.
That being the case, I found the welcome much more genuine.
The services I have gone to include live bands, and the whole experience so far has been enjoyable.
Among my favorites: Robert Schueller at the Chrystal Catherdral near Disneyland.
How were your first impressions of a church as compared to your association at the Kingdom Hall?
The singing was what suprised and impressed me. I had NEVER before seen people sing to God with such expression and joy - I had never seen someone REALLY worship God with song. It intrigued me - I had to figure out why they did that and where that feeling came from. That's what made me go back a 2nd time, then a 3rd,.......fast forward 2 years and I'm now baptised and a regular attender.
A few weeks later the pastor had an alter call - anyone who needed help could come forward and the congregation would help them out. A man stepped forward and said that he had a drinking problem and had been arrested for a DUI. Another man in the congregation volunteered to be his mentor - help him out, go to AA meetings with him, etc. I was shocked - when as a JW would someone step up in front of everyone and admit something like that?! And no committee meeting? Only support and help?! What gives......???
How long was it after you left the WT before attending church?
12+ years
Were you at first reticent about starting to attend Church?
I wanted NOTHING to do with religion at ALL!! I had decided that it was full of hypocrites and had nothing to offer me. My friend passed away and was a member of a local church. I went to her memorial service - and, well, you seen my comments above...
Last but not least, do you "feel" the love from your present Christian associates and how does it compare to th "love" at the Kingdom Hall?
Yes. But I also felt love from my JW associates. To be honest, lots of people show each other love for many different motives- but the question is whether it's unconditional. I don't know how many members of my current church would show unconditional love because I don't know them - but I DO know that they will never shun me or kick me out because I do something wrong. And I know that if I need help I can go there and get help without fear of punishment.
There is one major difference between the KH and my new Church - and the difference lays more with my understanding of what a Church is meant to be. As a JW the Kingdom Hall/Organization represented God himself. They were one in the same - to disagree with the Org was to disagree with God. I now see church as separate from God. My relationship with God is not dependent on what church I attend. Church is a place to (1) worship God, and (2) socialize and encourage each other. That's it. It is not God and does not replace God - it is just one of the tools he has provided for us to use in our journey here on earth.
Both suck! Got married in one, won't get burried in one!
caveman
How were your first impressions of a church as compared to your association at the Kingdom Hall?
It felt pretty alien. I was raised JW and never went to a church until after I got married to a non-JW and we went around "church-shopping". The biggest thing I recognized was all the music and singing. Maybe it's my personality, maybe the JWs, but I felt there was a lack of substance. I wanted to go to be moved by a sermon or learn something from it. Singing just doesn't do that for me. At some churches over half the service time was devoted to singing.
As for the music itself, I HATE the contemporary "christian" style. It's way too WASP for me. Maybe if it sounded more like pop/rock music, or even good gospel, it would be cool. Churches with that sort of stuff turned me off entirely. Some had choirs which I liked more. Some were more like the old days of the JWs, with a pianist.
As for the speakers, bravo! Most of them could really speak well. Maybe because it's not a part-time thing for them and maybe because they don't have strict outlines to follow. But they could move you. Those types of speakers were rare among JWs. But there were clunkers too. One guy had to pause for what seemed like forever at the end (or even in the middle) of every sentence. It was driving me nuts. I just wanted to yell at him "spit it out, you could have been finished 20 minutes ago"!
Of course, the other impression was wiping back the last feelings of guilt for being inside a church. And of course, looking around at all the things alien to JWs, like crosses, seeing the sacriment passed around, etc.
One church had a woman pastor, which I was totally OK with. But then I started noticing everyone doing everything was women, from greeters to passing out the sacriments, etc. Now I know what women feel like in the JWs. I like a mix, but this wasn't mixed and seemed unbalanced in the other direction.
I didn't care for the whole dressing up and carrying a Bible again. Too reminiscent of the JWs. Although I did like the relaxed dress code. More of a "business casual" than suit & tie.
Oh, and some people seemed way too happy. That's probably what church should be like. I'm just more of a cynical person and those people seemed wierd to me. At once church, right after opening, we were supposed to greet our neighbors around us and shake hands and introduce ourselves (if we didn't already know the people). Even that seemed kinda wierd.
How long was it after you left the WT before attending church?
Hmmm... about 10 years?
Were you at first reticent about starting to attend Church?
Well, I'm still reticent. I was led along by one religion and have no intent to be led along another false path. I personally don't see the need for Churches. Although, like schools, when it comes to raising Christian children, they are better teachers and can probably make a better impact than I can. And, if I don't follow some structure, like going to church on Sundays, I'm probably going to get lazy about teaching my kids.
Last but not least, do you "feel" the love from your present Christian associates and how does it compare to th "love" at the Kingdom Hall?
We never really ended up staying at a church. We started going to one because we liked the pastor's sermons. But I felt it was weak on the teaching to music ratio, so we joined a bible study class. It was weak. It was on "christian" money management, which did very little "bible" study.
Anyway, when we'd go to the main sermon, people seemed friendly and would say hi, but, overall, about the same level of friendliness I've seen from Kingdom Halls. At the Bible study, things were about the same. People were nice, but overall, we didn't end up getting close to people or making friends.
It all ended when I refused to go to the main sermon because that "contemporary christian" music was driving me nuts.
Meet the new boss......Same as the old boss!!!!
...why on earth do you expect love from your congregation?
This is a misapplication of John 13:34, 35: "A new commandment I [Jesus] give to you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves." The corrollary, of course, is that being fellow-Christians should be enough to base an undying friendship upon.
Why would I expect that variety of perhaps 250 people who see me maybe once a week to love me????? I don't expect the congregation to be a surrogate family.
Another misapplication of scripture -- and there are several prooftexts that are supposed to bear on this issue:
I have a real family and a busy real life where the church is a part of it, but by no means the central focus.
Well, see, that just marks you as a "worldling" in JW terms. When they say "the whole world lies in the power of the wicked one," they mean the _whole_ world: everything and everyone from Saddam Hussein to George Bush to Britney Spears, with stops along the way to condemn Christmas trees, psychologists and fine cigars. The jaydubs define "good works" and "service to god" extremely narrowly, which is why church attendance can be such a disorienting experience for an exjw.
Why would anyone expect real love from any congregation, JW or otherwise? I am so confused.
Well, I sure wouldn't attend a church where I didn't find the qualities you named in your post: "friendship, support, respect, kindness and courtesy, perhaps affection more from those I am close to." That takes up _most_ of Love's territory, in my experience.
gently feral
i am attending a small presbyterian evangelical church. it was non-denominational, but chose to affiliate with presbyterian a few years ago, mostly as i understand it to give the pastor some peer support and accountability.
the only church i set foot in between leaving jws in l976 and beginning a search for a church with which i could feel comfortable about a year ago, was catholic when i began dating my current husband - he is from a large tribe of irish-catholics - very devout mother in particular. yes, to a degree i was reticent about it, but found that it was quite different from jws - no love-bombing. i found the readings to be without emotion, the services generally to be hollow, no substance.
last year i became acutely conscious of my spiritual needs and strongly wished for some comaraderie and fellowship with fellow believers. i went to:
l) lutheran - same hollow impressions as catholic, 2) quaker - liked the silent meditation, but found them to be highly political and activist, a bit out of my element, 3) methodist - no follow-through, i asked about their advertised bible study and was told it was a closed group - oh well... 4) catholic - again, because of my husband thought i'd give it another try in a different area - same conclusion, 5) spiritualist - like attending a john edward television show of psychic readings - really strange 6) episcopal - like the catholics 7) salvation army - nice captain & wife, but struggling to hold the group of inner city kids and women together - it was great but i needed to be fed more substantial food at that point. last may found the church i attend - they do not meet in a "church" but a women's club, maybe 75 people, friendly, enthusiastic, serious about their beliefs, devoted to bible study, and it was that that kept me there.
since it is a small group it is easy to get to know pretty much everyone, and since small groups meet voluntarily throughout the week it is quite intimate. yes, i can say i feel genuine caring, concern and love, without legalism, without judgement.
but i will never feel that same blind loyalty to a church that i did to jws. as long as it meets my spiritual needs i will be there, the second it doesn't im gone.
