# put youir thinking caps on.

by zeb 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• ##### zeb

This was sent to me from Doug Shields blog. For those who like stats and numbers may find this of interest.

1914 – Recognizing the ”The elephant in the room”. The problem with the date ”1914 AD” lays with the two calendars that are involved – Jewish and Gregorian. The JW ”prophecy” of the ”7 TIMES”, which equals 2520 days/years, minus 607 (the years before Christ) leaves 1,913 years ”after Christ”. (The ”year ONE” – BC / AD problem will be taken into account later.) BUT…Those 1913 years must be counted as Jewish years of 360 days each – they do NOT suddenly become Gregorian years of 365.2425 days. Those 1,913 Jewish years (after Christ) have to be transposed from Jewish years into Gregorian years, do they not? The way to do that, would be to multiply 1,913(the number of Jewish years since Christ) times 360 days, to get the total number of days in that time period. And then divide that number by 365.2425 (the Gregorian number of days in a year) to arrive at the number of years it represents in our calendar. (The number 365.2425 takes care of the Leap years.) Therefore, 1,913 Jewish years, times 360 (Jewish days in a year) equal 688,680 Jewish days. Now, divide that number by 365.2425 to transpose it into our calendar. It comes to the year 1885 AD. The ”year ONE” – BC / AD problem still has to be taken into account. Jehovah’s Witnesses added one year, so the number of years becomes 1886 AD. 1886 AD should have been claimed as the ”YEAR THE MESSIANIC KINGDOM WAS SET UP” —- not 1914. This is the “elephant in the room”- something too ”big” to be seen. We were all focused on the 607 BC – 587 BC problem, and couldn’t see this one. If we can reach people (flood the internet) with this information, we will help many in JW.org to leave. If the year, ”1914” goes, many of their (present-day) dates go with it. They fall down like dominoes. PLEASE HELP. If we blitz the internet, we can cause a furor. JW.org will have a hard time doing damage control.

• ##### waton

no wonder the end and rapture did not happen in 1914 in Brooklyn. carpentry was so simple in the middle east. make the joints fit, this does not.

• ##### OneGenTwoGroups

My math gives me 1876, if the Jewish calendar is actually used with the 360 day rule is in place. Maybe Cofty can help us out here?

• ##### Spoletta
This is definitely another nail in the coffin of 1914, but will the average Witness really understand the calculations, or just pass it off as Satan's crafty acts?They might even refuse to examine the problem by calling it apostate reasoning. However, it may be a great tool to use with someone who is actively seeking confirmation of the doubts they're experiencing. Another great addition to the Apostate toolbox.
• ##### jwleaks

As the prophecy of "seven times" [insert scripture here] was inspired by jehovah [insert scripture here] then he knew that "in the last days" [insert scripture here] true light will be abundant. [insert scripture here]

Evidently jehovah knew [insert scripture here] that the Jewish and Gregorian calenders kept different numbers of days. Hence as the great time keeper [insert scripture here] jehovah could foresee [insert scripture here] that his prophecy would need to take into account the overlapping years [insert scripture here] so that true correct date would fit in with accurate teachings of the Watchtower. [insert scripture here]

Are we not happy brothers that jehovah pointed to 1914 as the start of his kingdom [insert scripture here] and the appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" [insert scripture here] in 1919.

Clearly jehovah has our best intests at heart [insert scripture here] by revealing to "the slave" [insert scripture here] the times and seasons. [insert scripture here]

Zeb

Those 1913 years must be counted as Jewish years of 360 days each – they do NOT suddenly become Gregorian years of 365.2425 days.

In jw land, this is know as math-magic! Same way that every number in Revelation is symbolic except 144,000 which 'magically' becomes literal!

just saying!

• ##### Finkelstein

As it is known just about all of the WTS's leaders ( Head Editorial writers ) were not academic bible scholars/theologians ) or neither academics in ancient history, hence the many inaccurate bible interpretations and ignorance regarding ancient history.

We were all focused on the 607 BC – 587 BC problem, and couldn’t see this one.

Well that's not quite true I queried this to the forum awhile back.

But the question is, is the spoken about "time" a lunar year or years with the added month to equate with the seasons and length of a solar year ?

In that the Hebrews applied an extra month to their lunar calendar to make up for the short 360 day lunar cycle.

The problem with strictly lunar calendars is that there are approximately 12.4 lunar months in every solar year, so a 12-month lunar calendar is about 11 days shorter than a solar year and a 13-month lunar is about 19 longer than a solar year. The months drift around the seasons on such a calendar: on a 12-month lunar calendar, the month of Nissan, which is supposed to occur in the Spring, would occur 11 days earlier in the season each year, eventually occurring in the Winter, the Fall, the Summer, and then the Spring again. On a 13-month lunar calendar, the same thing would happen in the other direction, and faster.

To compensate for this drift, the Jewish calendar uses a 12-month lunar calendar with an extra month occasionally added. The month of Nissan occurs 11 days earlier each year for two or three years, and then jumps forward 30 days, balancing out the drift. In ancient times, this month was added by observation: the Sanhedrin observed the conditions of the weather, the crops and the livestock, and if these were not sufficiently advanced to be considered "spring," then the Sanhedrin inserted an additional month into the calendar to make sure that Pesach (Passover) would occur in the spring (it is, after all, referred to in the Torah as Chag he-Aviv, the Festival of Spring!).

• ##### respectful_observer

To compensate for this drift, the Jewish calendar uses a 12-month lunar calendar with an extra month occasionally added.

@finkelstein, so does that mean the the OP's premise is incorrect? Based on your understanding is 1914 ok given the use of the occassional extra month?

• ##### Finkelstein

I personally think the spoken times by the writers of this scripture were speaking in lunar calendar years or times rather the years with the added Adar months but whose to know for sure.

Nevertheless to even make a defining calculation and make a pronouncement of Christ's return is going directly against Jesus's commandment that no one knows the time and he admonished his followers to make a time on god's own sacred time.

If you don't directly obey Jesus and his words you cant very well call yourself a Christian then can you ?

You may call yourself a false prophet or in these modern times a corrupt religoius charlatan.

Its also well known that the date of 607 BCE by the JWS is wrong as well just to add to their unsupported and inaccurate bible interpretation.

This is what happens when novice bible theologians create something that they think is astounding and try to sell it to the public through literature publications

• ##### Anony Mous

1914AD is the 5674 year on the Jewish calendar

607BC is the 3154 year on the Jewish calendar

No civilization based on agriculture would allow for such ridiculous time drifts. That is indeed a 2520 years difference with about 1 month of drift. The problem remains that nothing of note happened in 607BC

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/607_BC

Jerusalem was first sieged 10 years later, then sieged again and destroyed in 587, which has some support in the biblical text but is also independently verified by Babylonian timelines which are much more comprehensive, have more accurate time models and actually much more surviving evidence in sheer number than the contemporary Jewish/biblical sources.