Jeremiah 10:23 - "...It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step."

by HereIgo 19 Replies latest jw experiences

  • dubstepped

    If it doesn't belong to man to direct his step, then why are they trying to direct yours to follow men?

  • cha ching
    cha ching
    (John 20:24-25) 24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, who was called The Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 Consequently the other disciples would say to him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe.”
    Use this scripture ... Thomas saw miracles, saw Lazarus resurrected, but when it came down to Jesus being alive, he had to have proof. He had to stick his finger into the print of the nails, and stick his hand inside Jesus' body's wounds...

    Here you have one of the apostles questioning, denying the other apostles. He didn't 'believe'....

    And he wasn't DF'd. How many of us have seen miracles?

    Then tell them, "Just think of me as Thomas"

  • Crazyguy

    1john I believe says to check the inspired word and make sure of all things and Jeremiah chapter 14 talks about a wise person becomes righteous. Bottom line if you don't direct your own step then someone will. Someone who claims he's directed from god but time always proves them wrong and time is something you don't have!

  • David_Jay

    Actually the Scriptures do encourage independent thinking, even debating God and wrestling with the concept of God...well, if you're a Jew.

    While Jehovah's Witnesses believe in being silently obedient to everything that comes down from Heaven, if you read the Hebrew Scriptures you will note that this is not the way of Judaism.

    The reason Jews are called the nation of Israel and not the nation of Abraham is because our central theological concept, that of God, is a concept we "wrestle" with. Jacob's wrestling match is a symbolic explanation regarding our approach to the Divine.--Genesis 32:22-32.

    No, you don't have to become Jewish or join another religion for that matter, but it helps to know that the people who came up with the monotheistic God concept so central to the Jehovah's Witnesses have a totally different take on God, a take that might put your mind at ease.

    Abraham questioned God. Jacob took providence into his own hands. Moses changed God's mind by arguing on behalf of sinful Israel. Job questioned God's way of doing things...Need I go on?

    In our view God is not all-knowing, perfectly just, or totally complete. God is the personification of love, true, but God is too intelligent to think there is never something more to learn. Jews hold that God created humanity in order to grow more compassionate, to gain greater wisdom, to become a better God. God even tested Abraham because he didn't know how far humans would go to demonstrate their love for him (albeit that Abraham kinda got the wrong idea of what to do, and that's another story).--Notice the "now I know" at Genesis 22:12.

    The point is that if there is a God, then God is not locked up and restricted to the static ancient stories of the Bible. These stories are meant to tell you to question God like Abraham, to try to change God's mind about things like Moses did, yes, even to wrestle with God as did Jacob (whose name got changed to "Israel" for doing so and whose new name we Jews take upon ourselves).

    Merely believing in God is not enough, not for Jews anyway. God is meant to be interacted with. The "Jehovah" of the Watchtower is meant to be kept on a pedestal and silently listened to with fear, without question. That "Jehovah" is a golden calf. The God of Abraham is an encounter of participation.

    As for Jeremiah 10:23, if you read it in context it is saying that humans screw up when they don't engage God through life as they are supposed to. As the NRSV puts it "mortals as they walk cannot direct their steps." This text doesn't say they shouldn't attempt to do so. In fact, in verse 24 the author asks God for the ability to overcome this failing so that he can direct his own steps better in the future.

    The whole thing about the Governing Body is control. They have colored the Scriptures to look like they back up their demands. If you want to keep believing in God, I say you chuck their golden calf and just let your conscience be your guide. You don't have to be a Jew or religious to do so. God speaks not just in the pages of a Holy Book but in the heart of all people who will listen...and occasionally wrestle with the One who's speaking to them.

  • sparky1

    paternalism: 1: a system under which an authority undertakes to supply needs or regulate conduct of those under its control in matters affecting them as individuals as well as in their relations to authority and to each other. - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    The Jehovah's Witness collectivist culture is a religious, social and political (internally and not in regards to the human race at large) system built entirely upon the principles of paternalism. Those in 'authority' base their 'authority' on the Bible as the 'ultimate moral code' . Therefore, the self appointed 'authorities' (Governing Body, Elders, Ministerial Servants etc., etc., etc.) are totally convinced that what they do in their respective positions (whether it is objectively harmful or not) is 'for your own good'. While they fool themselves into thinking that they are 'helping' the individual, they are really 'protecting' the group and advancing it's interests.

  • DesirousOfChange

    I have been accused recently of "trying to direct my own step" because of my questioning the Org and refusing to come back to the "truth"

    I know you can't, but you'd like to ask, "How has the Org been at directing their (or anyone's) own step?

    Frankly, I think I have a better record of directing my own steps than they have. I've never bought anything and been unable to pay for it. (I have returned a few minor purchases.) I've never gone bankrupt. I'm still in my 1st marriage. We didn't choose to abort any pregnancies (when they were teenagers we might have considered it). Never walked away from a car or house I bought and let it go back to the bank. There was that Time Share that I bought and cancelled it before the 10-day clause was past. I think that is about the only "back step" I have really made in life. Then there were the few stocks I regretting buying and bailed on them at a loss.

    Now compare that with the flip flops and reversals and new light, etc etc of the bOrg....... Yep, the record clearly proves that I have a better record of "directing my own steps" than they have. So, I don't think I'm going back either. . .

    Oops! Maybe wasting 40 years in a cult and finally leaving it is my biggest "back step". Even so, I am not going back to that, so I guess I don't regret it either. I just regret it took me so damn long to wake up. . . . Doc

  • careful

    There are a number of other scriptures that they like to pull out and apply to anyone doubting the sacred organization: "Are you leaning on your own understanding, brother?" (Prov. 3:5); "Are you becoming wise in your own eyes?" (Prov. 3:7, 26:12) "Are you running ahead of Jehovah?" (1 Sam. 15:23, 2 John 9) It becomes pointless to try and have a scriptural discussion with them because of their belief that whatever the current GB says comes from God and trumps everything else. No one else on the planet can speak for Jehovah. If you disagree with the org over anything—it does not matter what—then Satan has gotten a hold of you.

    There really is no point in attempting to discuss anything with them. It's a waste of your, and ironically, their, time. They will not listen to whatever the issue is for you. The only issue for them is your loyalty to the org. Simpletons love such thinking.

    There is that passage in Hebrews that discusses thinking ability, the "powers of discernment," in a positive way (5:14), but they would likely only apply that to the idea that all you have to do is discern the GB is God's sole mouthpiece, and there's no need to go beyond that—hardly the context of Hebrews chapter 5.

  • smiddy

    Well historically it doesnt appear that it belongs to Jesus Christ to direct his steps either since his enthronement in 1914.judging by his achievements or should I say lack of them since then.

  • Vidiot
    spark1 - "...While they fool themselves into thinking that they are 'helping' the individual, they are really 'protecting' the group and advancing it's interests."

    If pressed, they'd probably argue that "protecting the group and advancing its interests" WAS "helping the individual".

  • LongHairGal


    The religion has inserted itself between the JWs and God.

    When the scripture says it's not up to man to direct his step, it was referring to God directing man's step. I don't ever recall the scriptures saying the Witnesses or the Watchtower, or JWorg being given that right.

    They may as well tell people they should be praying to them!!

    There is another scripture about the heart being treacherous and how we shouldn't trust it. But, why then would I trust the hearts of these men in the religion??

    What a sad thing for anybody to hand their thinking abilities over to this religion.

    They sound like they are nervous about people telling them to get lost.


    I agree with you about their paternalism and their self-appointed authority. Well, I do not accept their ASSERTION of authority.

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