Was it Adam who altered his own DNA so that sicknesses & consequent death would be passed on to his offspring? (page 2)

Viviane

How do Bible literalists explain that one ?

Obviously put there by Satan to tempt your faith.

Interesting thoughts that the talking snake precipitated genetic modification, not just a kind of one-dose poisoning, and that the chromosomal defect could have been reversed by treatment from the tree of life. The female seems to have kind of an immunity* though, even proven with the later story of the immaculate conception of Jesus added. I always thought that the ladies closely in my life were just perfect. Puzzling though, how the actions of Adam could have an effect back into time to retroactively affect the whole creation, that is now moaning, according to Paul,

* yeah, are not the proto ovi already formed at a female baby's birth?

schnell

To be sure, though no one has directly said this in this thread, we didn't evolve from homo neanderthalis. We evolved from homo erectus. "Neanderthals are more like our cousins with the same grandpa," says Aron-Ra. However, we do have some admixture of Neanderthals and Denisovans.

Knowledge is power.

jookbeard

logically its more evidence to blow this insane fable out of the water, simply put there was no DNA alteration, they were born that way;imperfect.

Phizzy

Humans interbred with Neanderthals, and inherited some diseases from them, long before Adam was supposedly faffing about in Eden with Rib Woman.

As Viv says above, this is just some of the huge quantity of evidence planted by Satan to get us over to the dark side.

Believers beware ! do not investigate your faith and its foundations !

megaboy

Actually this was covered in a messianic script I read that seemed to go into more detail about Adam and Eve. Genesis was the book the decendants of Isreal had as an overiview but I'm sure there were some who prior to their development who had more detailed writings like the ones I read on these things.

It states that the state of dying and sickness was something that was placed on Adam by falling out of influence of the Creator. It said something of the sort that instead of out right destroying Adam immediately he just setenced him into a dying state. On a similar note it described Satan as being kept a live out of an act of long suffering and not because of some bet he made with God (as the witnesses claim). I believe the dialogue went as far as to highlight that he could have destroyed him immediately if he wanted but chose to put up with him for a time out of his characteristic of long suffering.

The script also explains that the suffering comes from falling into the influence of Satan, when Satan rebelled in the heaven realm he was cast into the earth which seemed to be described as a prison like realm and he was lost to darkness and when Adam transgressed he became a partaker of darkness with Satan as his master. Which required a buy back through blood from the son. Satan wants to destroy mankind because he wants to have this realm to himself since apparently before Adams fall, whatever form Adam had, placed him at a higher order than angels and angels were simply something more like handmaids/butlers to them.

I see some reflections in Enoch as him being described as transferred but it sounds as if he walked so close to the creator he went through such a physical transformation that he had no place with regular humans any longer and he begain to frighten them by his apperance so he was just moved out of the realm entirely.

I guess that reflects the theme in Genesis as first there was darkness and then with God was light created. At night there is darknesses but there are signs of light via the stars etc.

It's interesting to think if this is why there was a lot of hate and stress against murmuring in new testament writings, because what could be described as murmuring started the disorder in the heavenly realm.

sowhatnow

often times, i solve my curiosity and frustration by believing we are the offspring of some alien race that crash landed on earth.lol

they were stuck here, had to adapt, and thats why the bible has so many stories about super humans and spirits. [and thats why we have so many unsolved amazing mysteries. like how some things were built or whatever]

and like in some Disney pixar movies, they stayed in a 'garden' [safe] area until they had no choice but to move 'out' into the unknown harsh world. lol

And if galaxies move away from each other, we will never find those who crashed here on earth again.

[but if were here, there are more like us.]

Vidiot

These ideas make the Genesis narrative sound almost like a long-lost H.G. Wells manuscript... :smirk:

blondie

I heard from an older jw that the idea was once that Adam and Eve would have eventually had to eat from the Tree of Life or die. The WTS also says that the difference between humans on earth living forever required support from God, water, air, food, etc, and the anointed in heaven and Jesus, spirit creatures that did not need support to live from God, that their life was within themselves

Reporting below not supporting:

However, April 1 1984 Watchtower discussed this question on pages 30-31:

▪ What is the difference between immortality and everlasting life?
Endless life will be enjoyed both by anointed ones receiving spirit life in heaven and by humans whom God declares righteous for life on the Paradise earth. So if you think about the outcome, immortality in heaven and everlasting life on earth result in basically the same thing—living forever. There are, though, some comments about immortality that can be made.

The Greek word translated “immortality” (athanasia) is formed from the negative a and from thanatos, meaning “death.” Immortality thus has the basic sense of ‘without death,’ or deathlessness. Understandably, Jehovah is the absolute source of all life and is immortal. (Psalm 36:9; 90:1, 2) This is confirmed by the fact that his glorified Son, who now “is the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being,” is described as “the King of those [men] who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality.” (Hebrews 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15, 16) No creature can take Jesus’ life as an immortal, which makes him different from humans or spirits that can die. Further, we read: “Now that [Christ] has been raised up from the dead, [he] dies no more; death is master over him no more.”—Romans 6:9.

Though immortality is, in a sense, everlasting life, immortality apparently implies more than that its possessor will live forever. It seems to indicate a particular quality of life, and it is linked with incorruption. The Bible says about spirit-anointed Christians who receive the heavenly reward: “This which is corruptible [in its human body] must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up forever.’”—1 Corinthians 15:53, 54.

Still, the Bible does not provide much detail about the quality of life termed immortality. We do know that mortal humans—even perfect humans having the prospect of endless life on earth—must eat and drink to maintain life, or they die and their bodies experience corruption. (Genesis 2:9, 15, 16) No doubt immortality involves a quality of life that does not need to be sustained like that. Thus it could be said that all who become immortal are not subject to death or that ‘death is master over them no more.’ That would harmonize, too, with their receiving incorruptibility, indicating that their spirit body or organism is inherently beyond decay, ruin or corruption. (Compare 2 Corinthians 5:1; Revelation 20:6.) In these ways a difference might be seen between immortality and everlasting human life.

Jehovah God is the perfect Judge who rewards anointed ones with immortality. When he in his boundless wisdom and insight determines such ones to be completely tested and unquestionably qualified for immortality, we can trust that they will forever be faithful. All whom Jehovah judges worthy of endless life, whether as immortal spirits or as perfect humans, will be able to worship him forever. Thus, in the final analysis, both everlasting human life and immortality in heaven result in endless life.—John 17:3.

Fisherman

When a person commits suicide, what is the proximate cause of death, the instrument, the person, or God who made the person mortal?

Was it Adam who altered his own DNA so that sicknesses & consequent death would be passed on to his offspring?