What Does The Organization Really Teach?

by Sea Breeze 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Halcon

  How willing are we, normally, to lend credence to claims that have little to no corroboration? Do we approach similar claims differently based only on which ones we favor? We should be able to establish a pretty comprehensive sets of norms that most people can easily agree on.

  Most people of faith have moved beyond what can be corroborated or not. Matters of faith have little to do with logic and appealing to the senses. Jesus himself said to Thomas, "because you see you now believe... blessed are those that believe without seeing".

  Faith is tied to the heart and spirit, just as Jesus said. If one can believe that the heart and spirit exists (as opposed to nothing existing outside of hard solid tangible matter) then it's not a stretch to believe in the effect the gospels can have on that heart and spirit.
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Jesus Outside the Bible-The Top Ten Historical References

  
  

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXpOLh2vNNM&t=332s

  Things we can know about Jesus from ancient non-Christian sources.:

  First, both Josephus and Lucian indicate that Jesus was regarded as wise. Second, Pliny, the Talmud, and Lucian imply He was a powerful and revered teacher. Third, both Josephus and the Talmud indicate He performed miraculous feats. Fourth, Tacitus, Josephus, the Talmud, and Lucian all mention that He was crucified. Tacitus and Josephus say this occurred under Pontius Pilate. And the Talmud declares it happened on the eve of Passover. Fifth, there are possible references to the Christian belief in Jesus' resurrection in both Tacitus and Josephus. Sixth, Josephus records that Jesus' followers believed He was the Christ, or Messiah. And finally, both Pliny and Lucian indicate that Christians worshipped Jesus as God!
  
• 

  Touchofgrey

  http://lucianofsamosata.info/wiki/doku.php?id=2013:why-lucians-view-of-the-christians-and-jesus-is-indeterminate

  Lucian was a satirist.

  Josephus was born in 37ce not a eyewitness.

  A complete copy of his works is dated to around 1100 ce ,so about a 1000 years after the so called events. So there's probably little or nothing of early work, and some of the comments regarding jesus are written in a different style to how josephus wrote. So there's a great probability that the comments were inserted at a later date. So not a reliable source.
• 

  Sea Breeze

  We have lots of eye witness accounts. Naturally they became believers because they saw the risen Jesus. The whole death and resurrection of Jesus was very public in a major city, the heart of Israel - Jerusalem. But if you dis-allow eyewithess accounts from believers, then that is poor scholarship. That is not how historical scholarship works.

  It's like saying to a court, you can't allow eyewitness testimony of the murder because they are biased, they believe the defendant is a murderer! That's nonsense.

  No one says it better than Donnal and Connal.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d4FHHf00pY