slimboyfat joins the Church of Scotland

by slimboyfat 28 Replies latest members politics

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I thought I had been saved long ago, but in some sense Jesus entered my life today.

    Observations from the church service this morning:

    1. At the front door, two suitably austere Calvinist elders greeted me, as I arrived just in time for the start of the service at 11 o'clock.

    2. Attendance was around 120 (by my rough count) meaning the church was around a quarter to a third filled. On paper the congregation has a membership of 540 so that means only fraction of the membership turns up for Sunday worship.

    3. At current rates of decline the Church of Scotland is projected to become extinct within a few decades. I don't know if that will happen, but something pretty dramatic would need to occur to reverse its fortunes. And large denominations can disappear. The Methodist Church in Britain is on the verge of extinction, down from being one of the largest denominations in the mid twentieth century. The Church of Scotland benefits from being a national church, political and community support, not to mention a very impressive property portfolio. It may continue longer than the current trends suggest.

    4. The church itself is a beautiful building, inside and out. It has grand pillars and a clock face at the entrance, and beautiful stained windows and ornaments, including a carved wooden sail ship inside.

    5. I would say three quarters, or possibly more, were 60 years old and over, many considerably older. There were a few middle aged and younger people, including a girl I knew from school, and a handful of children. To put it bluntly, unless there is an influx of younger people, it's hard to imagine there will be many of this congregation still active in 20 years time.

    6. The minister was a very lively and engaging fellow who seemed to know his congregation well. He was good at making everyone feel welcome and encouraged audience comments about experiences of Christmas in other countries. He has been minister in this church for nearly 20 years and seems entirely comfortable in the role.

    7. A number of times during the service the minister mentioned that over 500 people were in the church the week before - as part of a local Christmas event. He was very excited about having so many people in the church, but acknowledged they had come for a cup of tea out of the cold rather than for Christianity. But he was optimistic he might see some of them back.

    8. The minister referred to his wife a couple of times in a manner that suggested she wasn't present today. Which prompted the thought in my head: if he can't convince even his wife to attend what chance has he got? But I honestly don't know the situation so shouldn't draw conclusions.

    9. The hymns during the service were very tuneful and easy to sing: a complete contrast with kingdom songs, which always seem too high or too low, too fast or too slow, and make you feel like a bad singer. There was an organist who played very well. He also refrained from playing certain verses so the congregation had opportunity to sing unaccompanied, which was good.

    10. The congregation attendance may have been elevated this week because it is the second Sunday of advent and there was a special collection of presents for local needy children. A social worker was present to collect the presents and was interviewed by the minister about her work. It seems she does not attend regularly, but was grateful to the congregation for the many wrapped presents which they had placed in a collection at the focal point at the front of the pews.

    11. The minister said that the world had been transformed by Jesus coming into the world. He added that this was only possible because God asked Mary to give birth to Jesus and she said yes. Which prompted me to wonder if the gospel account says that Mary said yes to the proposition or was simply informed that it was going to happen.

    12. The minister also said that through Jesus, God had become incarnate in this world. He also said that it was the duty of the church, in turn, to become incarnate in the local community. I found this interesting because it suggested that the Trinity teaching has practical theological implications that are lost on JWs who focus on Greek anarthrous nouns and whatever. It also occurred to me that the Trinity is a very human centred view of God in a way. Because if the purpose of God expressing himself as three persons is in relation to man, then it seems that the nature of God, from all eternity, somehow anticipated, or was even fashioned for the purpose of incarnation. Whereas the JW view of God is that he was self-contained and that the production of the Son was an external and contingent choice. From an intellectual or aesthetic perspective I think you could make arguments on both sides which is the most satisfying conception of the almighty.

    13. They passed round a collection plate near the end. I know they do this, but it nevertheless caught me off guard. I put £1.20 in the plate, which was probably too little, but nevertheless felt it sorely.

    14. We said the "our father" prayer which I have not said since a child, but can still remember the words clearly. The minister also gave a blessing, while holding up three fingers. I remember this from a child also.

    15. There were about 8 songs in total, a couple of prayers, a short sermon and two Bible readings. The Bible readings were allowed to speak for themselves without much explication.

    16. The entire service lasted 1 hour 10 minutes, but it flew past very quickly because it was broken into many parts, with lots of songs, and the minister was genuinely engaging.

    17. At the close, the minister stood at the door and shook everyone's hand and said good morning as they left the church. I shook his hand and refrained from pedantically pointing out it was now afternoon.

    18. At one point two children were invited to come to the front of the church to light two candles for advent. The young boy was a funny character, around about 7 years old, who insisted he didn't need any help. The minister handled the children very well including a technical difficulty with the spark lighter.

    19. Seated behind me was an oddball character I know from around town. He's like my local rival in business, although I've only actually spoken to him a couple of times. I thought to myself, so this is where he hangs out. And he's the sort that hangs out here. Mmm.

    20. Everyone in church keeps their jacket on, which I find strange. The church was adequately heated. It does tend to create the impression they don't want to stay too long. Not many women with hats though. Calvinist but not that Calvinist.

    21. The minister was totally relaxed about children running around screaming during part of his sermon. Altogether he handled the service very well and came across as sincere, interested in the congregation, the community, and interested in making a difference and helping others as he could.

    22. The congregation was probably more than 60% female. Many of the elders in the church are women, including one older, formidable looking woman, who sternly gsthered the collection.

    23. A JW might criticise the service for not containing much in the way of instruction or teaching, but it was certainly more enjoyable as an experience than your average JW meeting.

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower

    You had a good time and really that's what's most important. And still believe what ever you want with no urgent need to hurry up and get saved.

    Seems more wholesome that the JW horror show. Might be a good place to find friends and stuff.

  • careful
    careful

    Well, if you're not DFed yet, that should do it!

  • scratchme1010
    scratchme1010

    Good luck.

  • Rainbow_Troll
    Rainbow_Troll

    Interesting observations.

    Though my father wasn't religious himself he had me baptized in the Church of Scotland as a toddler (it was a family tradition). My mom was a JW, but believed very strongly that a wife should obey her husband in all things.

    When I was in my early twenties I read John Calvin's Institues of the Christian Religion and was duly impressed with his scholarship. Even his arguments for election and predestination, as repugnant as they are to my own sensibilities, were very persuasive on an intellectual level. The only weak part of the book, however, is also the most important: the inspiration of the Bible. As I recall the best argument he could come up with was that the obvious literary quality of the text could only be explained by divine intervention. Made me wonder if Calvin had ever read anything besides the Bible. Even back then there was Homer, Virgil, Sappho, and many other classics that are at least as good as anything in the Bible.

  • LevelThePlayingField
    LevelThePlayingField

    Slim, you have a very nice writing style. Enjoyable to read. I find too that basically almost all churches believe in the Trinity. I never would think I would ever believe that Jesus is God except that I read it in the Greek Interlinear Bible produced by Watchtower. That flipped my lid. I was watching a video where the guy was proving Jesus divinity and didn't believe a word till I looked up the scriptures he quoted.

    I never thought I'd see the day...

  • never a jw
    never a jw

    I am just concerned that slim has two personalities or a big ego. Why is he always referring to himself in the third person?

  • Lostandfound
    Lostandfound

    Slim

    try the wee frees and let us know about them!

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Hi SBF.

    Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

    Is the Church of Scotland like the Church of England?

    Kinda like Anglicanism north of the border?

  • Lostandfound
    Lostandfound

    Church of Scotland is, I believe Unitarian. Church of England is Trinitarian. The Queen is head of both churches, So in some ways to be viewed as apostate b each of them.

    Both are the established churches in their countries, Scotland and England, Welsh variant is called Church in Wales.

    English CofE is also dying, with a legacy of expensive and large churches to maintain and an aging and declining membership

    Talking of grabbing KH properties, CofE done similar, all church's in CoE ar already property entirely of church but vicarage were the property of local church council. Now many churches share a minister or none at all, so empty vicarage. Locally the PCC, parish church council tried to rent out empty vicarage for income only to be told by the diocese that a recent change to church law vested all vicarages in the diocese they are in, so locals responsible for maintenance but get no benefit from an sale or rental!.PCC also responsible for maintaining chuchtho they have no ownership.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit