Walking on eggshells.

by foreword 16 Replies latest jw friends

foreword

Why is it that anyone who ventures on this site and tries to defend the Watchtower is immediately shot down and flamed for being blind and unrealistic?
And anyone who can come up with proof that the watchtower is evil gets applauded for finding these facts.
Some have wandered onto this site trying to defend their faith, even if at the time they didn't know the truth about the truth, and have immediately been labeled as a troll and showed the door. I've seen threads where these individuals have been treated like total idiots and insulted (to put it in a mild manner), yet nothing was done to reprehend the insulters. Freedom of speach in that area is accepted and even encouraged. I know it has happened to me in the past before I was aware of some of the watchtower's mistakes.
Right now the topic of war, and it's implications worldwide, are on the minds of everyone. And if someone wants to stretch it some, it might have biblical reasons to be discussed on this board.
I do not want to say this in a disrespectful manner, but it seems the Americans cannot take the criticism of their culture and their leaders. But at the same time, they enjoyed every minute of the Watchtower bashing, and I'm sure that many of them were the first ones to yell "troll" when a poor uninformed soul set foot here.
Now they have left this site and accuse people like me to be insensitive because I don't agree with their policies. We have to walk on eggshells, otherwise, yes otherwise.
As far as I'm concerned, what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
But of course, one more time, I am wrong about this, ain't I?
SixofNine

yes
Big Tex

If a Witness wants to come on this site and defend their faith, then let them. I don't see that happening though. What I have seen is a few Witnesses make generic statements about how wonderful the organization is or how "nice" Witnesses are. Those types of statements are not defending their faith. It is an opinion, and one not shared by many on this board. There is a shared experience here of being treated badly by an organization that claims otherwise. If someone who still believes in that organization comes here and tells us our experiences are not reality, then it is only natural to expect a strong response.
I'm still waiting for a Witness to post a thread and defend doctrines. That would be "defending their faith". But that won't happen, will it?
Xena

Jesus Fin Christ....Americans can take being critized...but I for one am tired of being labeled and lumped...
and if you can find a single post where I labeled anyone a troll or blindly followed anyone who did feel free to post it.
ONE MORE TIME NOW..........
YES AMERICANS MAKE MISTAKES
NO AMERICANS ARE NOT PERFECT
YES WE ARE AWARE OUR POLITICIANS LIE TO US
YES WE ARE AWARE THIS WAR IS ALSO ABOUT OIL
NO WE DO NOT ALL BELIEVE OUR COUNTRY RIGHT OR WRONG
YES WE ARE ARE AWARE WE ARE PROBABLY MORE PATRIOTIC THAN MOST PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTIRES
NO WE DON'T ALL WORSHIP AND KISS GEORGE BUSHES ASS JUST BECAUSE WE MIGHT SUPPORT THIS WAR
NO WE AREN'T TO SENSITIVE WE ARE JUST SICK AND TIRED OF THE BULL!
GET IT???????????????
rocketman

Many who do come here trying to defend the jw faith quickly label people here, pronounce them fit for destruction as apostates, and sometimes do little to forward the jw cause because they appear narrow-minded.
I do think that some who defend the jws faith are at times perhaps not treated with as much respect as they'd like.
But which came first, the chicken or the egg?
nowisee

ANYone with ANY belief, opinion, persuasion, religion, philosophy, etc. should be able to say ANYthing that they want to, as long as whatever is said is expressed with dignity, respect, tolerance and ideally (but may be too much to ask) love.
nowisee
be wise

Many Jw's who come on this site don't want just to talk.
They seem to forget that a lot of people here have religious and personal beliefs that they follow with much personal satisfaction more so than when they were being 'instructed' by the WTBTS organisation [God forbid] because they are doing what's right for them and leading balanced lives.
proplog2

On-Line communites and message boards have been going on for at least 20 years. I was an active participant on GEnie (GE information systems) early AOL, Prodigy, Compuserve etc.
At first JW's were all over the place. In the spirit of Charles Russell they saw the potential of this new technology for spreading their faith. Lengthy discussions concerning the Trinity seemed to dominate. Apokrisis (Greg Stafford) honed his skills at argumentation on the old AOL JW message boards.
But gradually little cracks started to open up. Evolution, Failed Prophecy, Blood Transfusions, Celebration of Holidays, Smoking , all had their specialists that argued pro & con. Eventually, many of those who were defenders of the JW could honestly see that their defense had no basis. In reaction a lot of JW friendly forums developed. But they were so highly censored that they became nothing but the sort of chat you could have at any Kingdom Hall. Conversation after meetings is seldom of a spiritual nature. Mostly shallow - how was your vacation?, how's the new house coming along?, I see you got a new Lexus- how do you like it?
What was the Watchtower's reaction? The Internet is the devil's trick. Don't go on the internet and engage in discussions. Beware E-Mail. They put up the scantiest site of any religious group. They could easily put the CD-Rom on the Internet. But instead they don't even give their web-site a little spot in the magazines. They have shown that they really aren't interested in sharing information - they want to control information.
There have been thousands of excellent arguments against JW teachings that have been presented on-line. None of these have been addressed by articles in the Watchtower. I remember one person posted a copy of an unanswered letter they wrote to the Society. Basically, this person was saying that their mate was finding material on line that they couldn't argue against, and they were pleading with the Watchtower to just help defend the faith.
This is why on-line defenders of Watchtower doctrine are ridiculed. We've seen the best arguments crumble. Yet the Watchtower keeps turning out 128 pages of the same stuff every month - NEVER EVER dealing with serious questions. Is it that they won't? Then they are obstinate. More likely they CAN'T defend themselves against the arguments that are all over the internet.
Truth is winning.
foreword

I remember the first days when I walked into the H2O site. As far as I was concerned, the truth was the truth, cause I had not for maybe 15 years heard anything about the watchtower. I had been disfellowshipped, but still believed they held the truth, and many times defended their doctrines when discussing with friends. I had no idea.
So for sometime, while on H2O, I defended what I thought were truths. Of course, and before I could realize it, I was ridiculed for doing so. I couldn't believe the apostate propaganda (so I thought), cause I held on to what I thought was true.
But it still remained that eventually my point of view was rectified, and this by individuals who were not nice in pointing out my false beliefs in the watchtower. But I accepted what was the truth. I had to since I could not prove otherwise.
Today I feel the same way about how the american public supports this war. I don't think it's right. I didn't come here to debate the war, it just so happened that they coincided. Maybe I should've brought my strong point of views somewhere else, but being an ex JW, I figured I had as much a right to be here than anybody else, so I spoke my mind.
When the French are ridiculed (cause i'm French descent) you don't see me crying over it....I take the pill, and if the arguments are strong enough I say.."oh well"...and to be honest....us French are wusses...what can I say but accept the facts of it. If I can argue the points being brought into the discussion as being false I will, otherwise I leave it at that, and accept what was just proven to me and rectify my reality.
So I really don't get the fact that some can't argue the topic. It hurts to be told the truth when you're wrong, but sometimes you need to hear it.
When you use the term watchtower, who do you refer to, the individuals or the leaders making the decisions. You know damn well that the regular joe in the watchtower has nothing to do with it's policies so you lump them up to make your point.
So when I use the term americans, i'm talking about the leaders and not the individuals, so in a way maybe you are lumped in the term, probably the same way you use the term "dub" to generalise.
But if you claim that freedom and democracy is part of the american way, you have to accept the voice of the majority and not become bent out of shape if someone shows that you are wrong, or alludes to the fact that you are.
Stop taking this so damn personal, and allow the topic to be discussed in the manner that people feel they have a right to express their opinions, even if it rubs you the wrong way. Isn't that what freedom of speach is all about, or is freedom of speach just for you guys.
Xena

Today I feel the same way about how the american public supports this war. I don't think it's right. I didn't come here to debate the war, it just so happened that they coincided. Maybe I should've brought my strong point of views somewhere else, but being an ex JW, I figured I had as much a right to be here than anybody else, so I spoke my mind.

You do have as much right to speak your mind...and I have a right to be offended by it and tell you so....lol when you express stong viewpoints you can expect some people not to agree. I respect people disagreeing with me..I don't respect jibes "cowboy".
When the French are ridiculed (cause i'm French descent) you don't see me crying over it....I take the pill, and if the arguments are strong enough I say.."oh well"...and to be honest....us French are wusses...what can I say but accept the facts of it. If I can argue the points being brought into the discussion as being false I will, otherwise I leave it at that, and accept what was just proven to me and rectify my reality.
Haven't seen the French ridiculed on a continous basis..over and over and over...generalized and lumped together into one big cowardly rude group, have you? If so please point it out to me and I will tell those people also not to generalize and that not all the French are this way and that they shouldn't judge an entire nation based on the few they have seen or heard thru the media.
So I really don't get the fact that some can't argue the topic. It hurts to be told the truth when you're wrong, but sometimes you need to hear it.
Yes you do...with respect for the other person's position and dignity.
When you use the term watchtower, who do you refer to, the individuals or the leaders making the decisions. You know damn well that the regular joe in the watchtower has nothing to do with it's policies so you lump them up to make your point.
Maybe that's what you do...I try very hard not to..guess we are different.
So when I use the term americans, i'm talking about the leaders and not the individuals, so in a way maybe you are lumped in the term, probably the same way you use the term "dub" to generalise.
Again I try not to generalize as a policy..I perpetuates stereotypes and IMO can be very hurtful. But then again that apparently is just me.
But if you claim that freedom and democracy is part of the american way, you have to accept the voice of the majority and not become bent out of shape if someone shows that you are wrong, or alludes to the fact that you are.
Ever heard of beating a dead horse? You can make a point and then let it stand without rubbing someone's face in it, huh "cowboy"?
Stop taking this so damn personal, and allow the topic to be discussed in the manner that people feel they have a right to express their opinions, even if it rubs you the wrong way. Isn't that what freedom of speach is all about, or is freedom of speach just for you guys.
Sounds to me like you are taking things a bit personally yourself. Freedom of speach is relative. When you infringe on others freedom or cause them needless pain, it is really worth it? Again I don't think so, but that's just me I guess.

Walking on eggshells.

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