My response to Gerhard Besier

by Jerry Bergman 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Abaddon

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/51229/1.ashx

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/48010/1.ashx

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/17681/1.ashx

  Above are the links of the threads we've posted comments to each other in. Nothing's disappeared, but sometimes pages don't display properly. Wait 5 minutes and try again. And compose your posts offline. I think the server is a little overloaded and kicks-up errors sometimes.

  And that's all I've got to say to you. Until you bother to actually respond to something in my posts, rather than posting tangental articles or dozens of book reviews, I really have had enough of it. I make specific points, which you ignore or evade, even if you've had pleanty of time to answer them, even if they are direct rebuttals of assertations you have made.

  Like on this thread, for example, you say "'x' is not reasonable", I say "look at all the evidence of 'x'", and then you don't defend your own argument.

  I don't really hold you any ill will, I just don't want to waste my time trying to discussthings with someone who doesn't seem to realise discussion consists of a two way dialogue.
• 

  Jerry Bergman

  Thanks for the threads. Now that I can find the posts I can respond. Time is still a problem. I am several weeks behind on my research at the medical school.
• 

  Jerry Bergman

  I do have a problem with an overly literalistic interpretation of scripture that seeks to validate the Universe’s origin as it was imagined by a human some thousands of years ago, even if this requires selective vision and brute force. I do not take a literalistic approach but an historical one. Also, what if the best scientific interpretation happens to fit the biblical model, would you reject it? Remember, this is exactly what happened when the Big Bang was proposed as has been well documented now.
• 

  Abaddon

  I do not take a literalistic approach but an historical one. Also, what if the best scientific interpretation happens to fit the biblical model, would you reject it? Remember, this is exactly what happened when the Big Bang was proposed as has been well documented now.

  Well, I'm yet to be convinced of your historical approach Jerry. Give me an example.

  Obviously, my argument is that I do look for the best scientific interpretation, and that I find this doesn't fit the Bible model, and that I find it hard to understand WHY people attempt to fit the scientifc model to the Bible, as their attmepts seem doomed. You've not yet given me one example where I feel science fits the Bible model with regard to creation.

  BUT, I'll wait for the long overdue responses to my rebutal of this the assertations in general you made in this thread.
• 

  Jerry Bergman

  A friend at Besier's university did some research and gave the following advice to me:

  - Professor Besier is someone no one has heard of. Don't honor him with
  attention, he's not worth the trouble.
  
  - The whole Univ. of theology and biology faculties would back him up in
  any conflict. Evolutionism = rationalism there, and some big name biology
  profs. there are foaming mouth anti-creationists.
  
  - You'll never get a fair hearing in any court here. Americans are viewed
  as self-rightous religious quirks who e.g. attacked Irag in the name of oil
  and justify it with pious words.
  
  - Put a good reply on the web and make sure it gets distributed. Don't
  appear defensive. Come across as "sad" at how German theologians with no
  message anymore are self-destructing. Ask Besier or others to reply and
  inform the reader with an essay with document just how well attended the
  state churches are with university students in the Heidelberg area (answer:
  a couple of music students practicing the organ, that is it). Point out
  that the FEGs (Frei evangelische Gemeinde) are thriving in spite of and
  independent of the theological faculties, and with no state funds.
  
  Point out that as a non-scientist he has no qualifications to attack a
  natural scientist like you. There is a huge difference here in status
  between a natural scientist (chemistry, physics..) and a social
  scientist/theologian.
  
  I don't see any realistic way to get a fair shake in his home turf, but you
  can damage and shame him badly by bringing the facts to light.
  
  I have had good experience with our "enemies" once some trust has been
  gained. This in the approach which works here. In the USA we try to keep
  the Believer firm. In Germany we have long since lost this position, and
  are fighting "in the underground", within the system
  
  Hope this helps.