Let's tone down the America / War topics and get back on track

by Simon 59 Replies latest forum announcements

  • Simon
    Simon

    Just to clarify a few things wasasister:

    I am certainly not happy about having to say "please limit posts on this topic" but it is not me who is constantly complaining about them. I am suggesting this to bend-over-backwards in order to accomodate certain sensitivities. It would be preferable if people could discuss the topics and not cause or take offence so quickly.

    Also, I have not outright banned them, merely requested that people limit them and think before they post: is this really needed? Am I really interested in people's opinions or am I just wanting to throw something in someone's face.

    I would be perfectly happy to let topics continue if people could be civil and sensible but it seems that both of these are a challenge to some.

  • teejay
    teejay
    He has made repeated requests that people are civil to each other, but quite often has been ignored by some. Now if he did nothing about this people would complain nothing was being done about it, but if he trys to do something about it (hense this thread) that is also wrong.

    Angharad,

    Being civil is one thing. Being unable to intelligently disagree without name-calling is something else.

    I’ve seen certain people repeatedly, consistently, and with impunity call others moron, idiot, blind. One of these name-callers in particular seems totally unable to craft a single post without a personal insult of some kind to whoever he’s talking to, yet they are rarely called to account. OTOH, I’ve seen others strongly censured for having said a single word or made a single comment that perhaps shouldn’t have been said; or even banned (or threatened with banning) when a single word or comment of theirs was misunderstood.

    I believe a big part of the problem is the perception of a gross double standard that has people upset, not the topic itself.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Please provide examples, and I don't mean single posts out of context. If you think I have been biased then show me. This is one of the things that gets bandied around but no one ever seems able to actually demonstrate it with real examples. Odd posts will be missed but I think we do a pretty fair job.

    No one is allowed to post with impunity.

    No one is banned or threatened with banning over single misunderstandings.

    We do not "announce" when posts are edited so perhaps you see something posted and imagine someone has gotten away with something. All edits are logged thought and show up.

    I believe a big part of the problem is the perception of a gross double standard that has people upset, not the topic itself

    Maybe the problem is this "perception" is generated by some of those involved who only see things through their own tinted specs where they don't acknowledge anything they say is offensive and are then offended by anyone who disagrees with it.

  • teejay
    teejay
    Please provide examples, and I don't mean single posts out of context. If you think I have been biased then show me. No one is allowed to post with impunity. No one is banned or threatened with banning over single misunderstandings.

    Sorry, Simon, but single posts is the best I’d ever hope or even try to offer. I have no intention of rehashing in their entirety three, four or five threads. Rhetorical question: by saying that single posts “out of context” wouldn’t suffice, is it safe to say that an occasional reference to a fellow poster as a “moron” or an “idiot” or a “a-hole” is acceptable?

    You *are* biased, Simon. That is no sin. We all are. It’s part of being human. Further, it’s okay if you admit it. Case in point: Yesterday one of your favorites caused a minor uproar when she said

    I find American patriotism to be excessive and very blinded. It's not to say other countries, whether in Europe, Asia, Australia or Africa, are not nationalistic, but I'd have to say I don't see such blinded ignorant patriotism as expressed by the Americans. I know "blinded ignorant patriotism" are strong words, but that is how many Americans do come across. They claim they live in the best country in the world, yet how many of them have stepped outside their own country borders?

    Despite the hurt feelings her words clearly engendered all around, you defended her tooth and nail. “She was only stating her opinion,” you said and, as a rebuke meant for her to the offended you said “it would be nice if she....” (paraphrasing). No stern “stop the insults or else” as others might have gotten but more of a soothing “come on now, Sis.” Jelly, OTOH, can say something like “bite me, Simon,” and is immediately banned (to be reactivated later).

    You say: “No one is banned or threatened with banning over single misunderstandings.” Knowing you as I do, I have no doubt that’s true. I don’t follow the board as closely as some. Maybe the Jellys of the board are on some sort of ‘watch list’ owing to an amalgam of posts wherein over time they’ve gotten on your nerves and a “bite me” just sends you over the edge. OTOH, maybe others are friends of long standing and are on a leash 18 miles long; or happen to share your point of view on a particular war topic so that insults directed t'ward the opposing side aren’t noticed as much. (The SAME side I myself disagree with, btw, but it's still wrong to insult people.)

    As I say... it’s cool however you run the board, Simon. I’m glad to be allowed to post here and proud of the way you run things. As I’ve said in the past: I don’t believe in a Jehovah, but if I did I’d think you were chosen to run this place. I support you totally, even though – as it is with everybody else I support -- sometimes you’re wrong. Period.

  • Simon
    Simon
    Sorry, Simon, but single posts is the best I’d ever hope or even try to offer. I have no intention of rehashing in their entirety three, four or five threads. Rhetorical question: by saying that single posts “out of context” wouldn’t suffice, is it safe to say that an occasional reference to a fellow poster as a “moron” or an “idiot” or a “a-hole” is acceptable?

    This is exactly my point. If you don't have the time or energy to go trawling through all posts and topics to find "who started it" then why do you suppose I do? Why should I? If I come to a topic and there is name calling on both sides then I try and suggest everyone cool it. If someone didn't start something but has resorted to name calling in response to someone else then that is their bad luck if they get lumped in.

    It would be simplistic to pick up on "moron" and "idiot" and the like while ignoring other probably more insulting comments that simply didn't contain them.

    You *are* biased, Simon. That is no sin. We all are. It’s part of being human. Further, it’s okay if you admit it. Case in point: Yesterday one of your favorites caused a minor uproar when she said

    "I find American patriotism to be excessive and very blinded. It's not to say other countries, whether in Europe, Asia, Australia or Africa, are not nationalistic, but I'd have to say I don't see such blinded ignorant patriotism as expressed by the Americans. I know "blinded ignorant patriotism" are strong words, but that is how many Americans do come across. They claim they live in the best country in the world, yet how many of them have stepped outside their own country borders?"

    Despite the hurt feelings her words clearly engendered all around, you defended her tooth and nail. “She was only stating her opinion,” you said and, as a rebuke meant for her to the offended you said “it would be nice if she....” (paraphrasing). No stern “stop the insults or else” as others might have gotten but more of a soothing “come on now, Sis.” Jelly, OTOH, can say something like “bite me, Simon,” and is immediately banned (to be reactivated later).

    Well, I don't think I am. If you read the topics you will see the reasons for both decisions clearly stated and you are taking snippets of them out of context. I defended no one "tooth and nail" as you try and make out. I'd be interesting to know though what exactly you think in that comment warranted a reprimand as opposed to an answer? Also, you have missed out my comments to her which contradict what you are saying.

    Also, do you want every warning and issue to be public? No polite request by PM or Email? It seems I cannot win, whatever I do.

    As for Prisca being one of my favourites ... well, I guess you added that to try and add weight and a bit of color to your argument but it simply isn't the case. Yes, I do have some favourites but they are not the people I suspect that many imagine. I'm also being accused by some of having Trauma_hound as a favourite. I think this shows just how rediculous claims like this are as I coudl post to numerous arguments I have had, posts edited and accounts deactivated.

    You say: “No one is banned or threatened with banning over single misunderstandings.” Knowing you as I do, I have no doubt that’s true. I don’t follow the board as closely as some. Maybe the Jellys of the board are on some sort of ‘watch list’ owing to an amalgam of posts wherein over time they’ve gotten on your nerves and a “bite me” just sends you over the edge. OTOH, maybe others are friends of long standing and are on a leash 18 miles long; or happen to share your point of view on a particular war topic so that insults directed t'ward the opposing side aren’t noticed as much. (The SAME side I myself disagree with, btw, but it's still wrong to insult people.)

    Well I think this goes both ways. Maybe the "prowar" people who have made insults won't admit or can't comprehend that they have been pretty damn insulting at times and there hasn't been the big fuss made over them. But no ... it seems they want one rule for them and a different one for everyone else.

    Seems that many of the ones quick to call names are also quick to complain.

    I take a post as I see it and if I think someone is trying to cause trouble or make an issue out of something that isn't then I can and will take some action. If I'm wrong then I will stand up and say so. What is the big deal? I have always openly admitted my mistakes ... something it appears some people find very difficult.

    As I say... it’s cool however you run the board, Simon. I’m glad to be allowed to post here and proud of the way you run things. As I’ve said in the past: I don’t believe in a Jehovah, but if I did I’d think you were chosen to run this place. I support you totally, even though – as it is with everybody else I support -- sometimes you’re wrong. Period.

    Thanks. I don't intend to do it for much longer though as I am frankly getting sick of the nit picking and unreasonable and unfair demands. Sometimes it is an uphill effort and there seems little cooperation from some to work together but every effort to make things difficult.

    Perhaps I should be more strict? Less consultation and more 'authority'.

  • wasasister
  • wasasister
  • wasasister
    wasasister
    Thanks. I don't intend to do it for much longer though as I am frankly getting sick of the nit picking and unreasonable and unfair demands.

    I appreciate your situation, Simon and my comments were not necessarily a criticism.

    I don't blame you for getting sick of trying to moderate a bunch of very diverse people. Bboy went the opposite route, NO moderation at all, and I think many here have seen the results. Some posters seem quite comfortable with that kind of forum, but in my opinion, much of what is posted there is pretty nasty. Entire pages of posts are either ugly name-calling, or neo-nazi propaganda.

    It serves to demonstrate what happens when absolutely no restraints are placed on the content. If one chooses, as Simon does, to establish a few boundaries, then one faces the calls of bias.

    Teejay is right, Simon - as much as it pains me to say this. Of course you are biased. You would hardly be human if you weren't. What you do, from what I have observed, is try as hard as you can not to let your biases influence your decisions on the board. Sometimes you manage this better than others.

    I've stuck around here, while not posting or reading as much as I once did, precisely because I find you to be for the most part fair. At times, when I think you are being over easy on Poster A and overly harsh on Poster B, I just stop and think how I would be doing in your place. Kind of brings things into perspective! I'm fiecely loyal to my friends, even though I am also very honest with them when I think they are out of line.

    A board run by Wasasister would be very much: "stay here as long as you don't piss me off."

    As for the war subject, I can't see this going away any time soon. We are watching an important part of history unfold, and no matter what our opinions are, we can't be expected to keep silent.

    To any of you who give a rat's ass about my opinion, could you PLEASE stop generalizing, lumping people together, and insulting those who disagree with you? If we silence the opposition, how will we ever learn anything?

    /end rant

    Wasa

  • teejay
    teejay

    Simon,

    I'm your friend. Period. I support you and generally approve of the way you have always run JW.com. Period. You don't need to defend your actions (not to me) nor get bent out of shape as seems to currently be the case.

    Still, not everyone here is your friend.

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge
    Farkel:

    Just my opinion, but in your post above, you are being an ass.

    Wrong. I totally agree with Farkel. (Would that some of you could walk in the shoes of those who have lost loved ones on 9/11... then you might just understand how threaten some of us feel about letting those who sponsor terrorists get a 'pass' from the international community.. by the way, after 9/11 I don't give a sh*t what the world thinks of us...)

    I also am one to move on, otherwise we will keep dragging ourselves down. Sadly to say, we've lost too many great posters... L.B. and Dakota Red come to mind.

    Simon: Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and after all is said and done, can only 'walk in their own shoes' -such is life. You do a great job for the most part, one that is not envied.

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