Why Ray Franz? A very theoretical proposal

by logansrun 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • manon


    I wanted to elaborate a little more on my previous comments. Mind you these are just my observations on reading this book.

    I feel that FF was a bigger player in the game after all he was the second man in line. Knorr was a dying man and everyone knew this. The society was not ruled by a theocracy but instead suits in a dictatorial setting.

    Fred had everything to do with RF appointment in BHQ {RF clearly states in his book how his uncle wanted adulation from him for rescuing him from this little island nothing life.} Which RF was particularly happy with.

    After arriving at BQH RF excelled at his job as a scholar and writer. He is a brilliant man with a gifted mind he stood out from the rest by excellence and talent. At the same time RF realized that his uncle was a fraud. And that the society was based on lies and double standards. FF said " he was the oracle of the society".

    I believe that the paranoia that came from the GB in reality came from FF's own paranoia simply because he was jealous of his nephew and saw him as a threat who by mere talent and living accordingly could have easily passed him over in the rank and file as well as divide the towers.

    FF wasn't going to have it, so he put his plan in motion put out his dogs and henchmen and the rest is history.

  • Francois

    Fred is a gentleman's gentleman. He is polite to a fault and one would never get the impression that he is or was lying to make a point or to make a point stronger. Fred seems to be acutely aware that that Truth has a power of its own, separate from the truth teller, and he uses that fact to the maximum of its efficiency.

    Go Fred!


  • onacruse

    A bit dated, perhaps, but considering that Rutherford essentially made the WTS what it is today...

    Four GB members (or the closest equivalent) spearheaded a movement in 1917, including yelling matches in the Brooklyn Bethel dining room, physical confrontations in the hallways, an extended writing campaign, and political maneuvering at the stockholder's meeting. All it got them was a boot print on the bottom of their britches. And these were guys that had been with Russell for as long, or longer, than Rutherford. A lesson that no subsequent GB member has ever forgotten.

    There is nothing quite so addictive as power. As long as Ray Franz, or anybody else, could contribute to the perpetuation of that control, they were welcomed and promoted.

    Use 'em up and spit 'em out.


  • anti-absolutist

    I BELIEVE that the best thing that ever happened to me, (I was born into the JW faith) was the fact that I got df'd. At the time of me getting df'd, it was the worst thing that ever happened to me. The only thing that changed was my perception.

    Ray Franz became a hero for a lot of ex-JW's because they needed one. I DO respect the man, but I would think that he would agree that he became a saviour for some of us, because we needed one as much as that he was one.

    I have a friend who was a JW from birth to about 16 years of age. He cannot understand how much of an impact it has had on me. (I was deeply into it until 24). My friend and I support each other very well, because he shows me how much I have lost, by being a dub, and I show him how much I can help others, by showing how great life is on the outside.

    An interesting point, that I don't know how many people consider: Ray Franz (with all respect due to him) would just be a bitter JW, and at best an apostate, if it not for his status on the Governing Body.

    Cheers to Ray for being just like the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!! He saw bullshit and wanted to expose it. He is our equal.


  • JT

    one of the things about Freddy was he didn't care a lick for runnning a Corp, he was in his own world as long as he controlled the content of NEW DOGMA- now that was freddy's nich-

    Knorr was the business man him along with Grant Suiter, and George Couach who ran the bethel home, now I never met Knorr, but everyone who was at bethel will tell you the same story and if you ever met Grant or George then you know the rest

    they loved to be viewed like Wall Street guys- Freddy on the other hand lived 2 doors down the hall from me on the 9th floor of the 124 building, i recall one day coming home early for Night watchmen duty

    and his room was open, so i asked the housekeepeer if i could look in his room

    DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! his room looked worst than mind- of course he couldn't see so i guess it really didn't matter, but Grant and George's room- LIKE A 5 STAR HOTEL-

    FROM what i have been told freddy just didn't care for the inner working of the Corp stuff, but as has been pointed out Knorr was on top of all the branches and who the real players were in each

    besides i know for a fact that many young appointed MS have been appointed due to their family history

    on many CO forms that went to bethel recommended a younger man 17-19 as a MS it was noted that he has a strong theocratic family background

    so to have Freddy franz as your uncle it would indeed be a giant plus for along with his long track record of being LOYAL TO THE ORG

    this phrase i used to hear all the time in connection with the appoinment of elders or ms

    so i can't imagine that such a qualifcation would not be included in ref to a man who was about to be added to the GBs

    when you combine his years of "loyal" service and his family connection what more could anyone ask for in terms of selecting a person to serve on any Board- esp if the person is half way sharp to start with-like Ray is--

    just my 2

  • JT
    I good JW Elder friend called me last night to say Hi…He commented that the Legal Department is pretty much running the WT now……very telling……

    I was told the same thing , but with this additional dept thrown in: The WT Accountants- from what i was told these guys the CPA guided the wt thru the booming90's and netted literally TONS OF CASH$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with investments and wills, etc I was told the split in 2000 into the 5 corps was the work of the legal and accounting dept for the sake of protecting ALL THAT CASH

  • Francois

    Fred is a gentleman's gentleman. He is polite to a fault and one would never get the impression that he is or was lying to make a point or to make a point stronger. Fred seems to be acutely aware that that Truth has a power of its own, separate from the truth teller, and he uses that fact to the maximum of its efficiency.

    Go Fred!



  • herk

    Here's my 2 cents worth:

    I had been at Bethel 13 years when Ray was added to the governing body in 1971. He was not added due to his relationship with his uncle. Recommendations had been requested from branch overseers, district overseers and other leading men in the field as well as at headquarters. At the time, the members of the GB were Knorr, Fred Franz, Suiter, Henschel, Groh, Sullivan and Swingle. Knorr appreciated Ray's work but, from what I was told, I gathered that he thought Ray would be a menace on the GB. And anything that Knorr was against, Fred was too. The same was generally true of Suiter and Groh. Knorr and Henschel, however, were not getting along very well. I personally saw them having little spats over silly trifles. These illustrated to me that Henschel was one of the few who had the courage to confront Knorr and stand up to him. My impression was that Ray was approved for membership by Henschel, Sullivan, Swingle and probably Groh. To many of us at Bethel, Ray had the qualifications more than anyone to be on the GB. He was a hero of sorts who had won our admiration due to what we saw as his humility, sincerity, hard work, and the way he excelled in Bible study and teaching.

  • manon

    CoC reads to me like a modern day greek tragedy (In a urban Brooklyn setting).

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