Is God Dreaming

by Satanus 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • funkyderek
    Isnt that a belief of the deluded Mary Baker Eddy who founded 'Christian' Science?

    Shouldn't that read Christian "Science"?

  • Valis

    Eh...any of you ever read Towing Jehovah?

    here's a good interview with the author James Morrow...I think you all might like it regardless if you beleive in Dog or not..


    District Overbeer of the "Somnambulating Diety" class

  • Satanus

    That's interesting.

    I suppose it's rare to come up w an idea that has never been thought of before. It's not a belief for me, though, it's just an idea i'm exploring. Comments here will have some affect on how long i entertain it.

    Hmm, sounds to be worth a look.

    The theory is that all the infinite possibilities are played out. That includes all the bad $#!+. Also whatever may be happening in other dimensions, which we are unable to sense (provided those dimensions exist).


    something VASTLY speculative and without any correlation whatsoever; and the difference between that and faith is?

    Quite a difference, as it's an idea i'm exploring. No faith involved. Though i could see it's usefulness in a religion.

    Why is this freaky?

    I suppose some people wouldn't be be bothered w anything. Others are impressed by little things like bugs walking through grass. Maybe it's because of the huge amount of emptiness between solid objects which are also mainly empty. Have you ever stood at the top of a canyon or mountain, where you could see for miles? Or you could fall a really long distance if you made a wrong move? I suppose each ones reaction would be different.

    so you are saying "If everything is real, why is there so much real", or if you want to break it down, If everything (i.e. material objects) is real (i.e. exists), why is there so much space (areas where 'real' 'material' objects can occur but that are currently empty)? Which kind of makes the sentence nonsensical.

    I never said that space wasn't real as compared to matter being real. I called it empty or void. I'm questioning if everything is really real.

    I haven't read it, but i read the link you supplied.


  • ballistic

    I am interested to know more about this gap between self and beliefs.

  • Satanus


    There are different ways of doing it. One way is to have someone ask you 'what are you?', wait for you to answer, and then ask again, 'what are you'. Have them ask this repeatedly. Here is a little excerpt from an article on kabbala, that explains it fairly well:

    The illusion of Tiphereth is Identification. When a person is asked "what are you", they will usually begin with statements like "I am a human being", "I am a lorry driver", "I am Fred Bloggs", "I am five foot eleven". If pressed further a person might begin to enumerate personal qualities and behaviours: "I am trustworthy", "I lose my temper a lot", "I am afraid of heights", "I love chessecake", "I hate dogs". It is extremely common for people to identify what they are with the totality of their beliefs and behaviours, and they will defend the sanctity of these beliefs and behaviours, often to the death - a person might have behaviours which make their life a misery and still cling to them with a grip like a python. This inability to stand back and see behaviour or beliefs in an impersonal way produces a peculiar ego-centricity: the sense of personal identity is founded on a set of beliefs and behaviours which are largely unconscious (that is, a person may be unaware of being grotesquely selfish, or pompous, or attention-getting) and at the same time seem to be uniquely special and sacred. When behaviour and beliefs are unconscious and incorporated into a sense of identity it becomes impossible to make sense of other people. If I am unaware that I regularly slip little put-downs into my conversation, and Joe takes umbrage at my sense of humour, then rather than change my behaviour (which is unconscious) I interpret the result as "Joe doesn't have a sense of humour; he needs to learn to laugh a little". There are many behaviours which may seem innocuous to the person concerned but which are irritating or offensive to others, and when the injured party reacts appropriately it is impossible for me to make sense of this reaction if my behaviour is unconscious and tightly bound to my sense of identity. Our sense of identity thus becomes a kind of "Absolute" against which everything is compared, and judgements about the world become absolute and almost impossible to change, even when we realise intellectually the subjectivity of our position. Referring to this projection of the unconscious onto the world Jung [5] comments:

    "The effect of projection is to isolate the subject from his environment, since instead of a real relation to it there is now only an illusory one. Projections change the world into one's unknown face."

    In summary, the illusion of Tiphereth is a false identification with a set of beliefs or behaviours. It can also be an identification with a social mask or Persona, something discussed in the section on Netzach. So to return to the orginal question: "what are you?". Is there an answer? If the answer is to be something which is not an arbitrary collection of emphemera then you are not your behaviours - behaviour can be changed; you are not your beliefs - beliefs can be changed; you are not your role in society - your role in society can change; you are not your body - your body is continually changing. Out of this comes a sense of emptiness, of hollowness. The intellect attempts to solve the koan of koans but has no anchor to hold on to. Is there no centre to my being, nothing which is *me*, no axis in the universe, no morality, no good, no evil? Do I live in a meaningless, arbitrary universe where any belief is as good as any other, where any behaviour is acceptable so long as I can get away with it? This sense of emptiness or hollowness is the Qlippoth or shell of Tiphereth, Tiphereth as the Empty Room with Nothing In It. Jung [6] provides a memorable and moving description of how his father, a country parson, was progressively consumed by this feeling of hollowness. There can be few fates worse than to devote a life to the outward forms of religion without ever feeling one touch of that which gives it meaning.


  • Satanus


    without any correlation whatsoever

    How about interactive computer and simulation games, socalled virtual reality and movies? How about our own dreams? Even animals dream. New scientist mag had an article that said that even roaches dream, based on observations of their movements (while they were sleeping, i guess).


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