The case of Jamal Khashoggi

by LoveUniHateExams 46 Replies latest social current

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Just been catching up on the case of Jamal Khashoggi.

    Khashoggi was a Saudi journalist who 'went missing' on 2 October after visiting the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

    He visited the consulate in order to get paperwork that confirmed he was divorced from his ex-wife and free to marry his Turkish fiancée.

    The details that are emerging are harrowing and show just how barbaric the Saudi regime is.

    These assassins are the kinda people my government (UK) and other Western governments are doing business with, propping up, and acting all smiley with in front of the cameras.

    I suddenly feel the need to take a shower ...

  • sir82

    Not sure if NYT site has a paywall or not, but if you can view it:

    Intelligence agencies have not yet been able to collect direct evidence of the prince’s involvement, American

    and European officials said. They also have not been able to conclude whether Prince Mohammed directly

    ordered the killing of Mr. Khashoggi, or whether his intention was to have Mr. Khashoggi captured and taken

    back to Saudi Arabia, according to one official.

    But intelligence agencies have growing circumstantial evidence of the prince’s involvement — including the

    presence of members of his security detail and intercepts of Saudi officials discussing a possible plan to detain

    Mr. Khashoggi, according to American officials.

    Officials have also said the prince’s complete control over the security services makes it highly unlikely that an

    operation would have been undertaken without his knowledge.


    On the same day that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo landed in Saudi Arabia to discuss the disappearance of

    Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, a previously promised $100 million landed in American bank accounts from

    Saudi Arabia, according to a The New York Times report.

    The Times reported that the money was for American efforts to stabilize Syria and that Saudi Arabia

    had promised the Trump administration the funds over the summer.

    The timing of the arrival of the money has raised eyebrows among some bureaucrats, the Times reported, as

    speculation heightens over the disappearance of Khashoggi.

    This is really bad.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    My mind goes back to 9-11.

    Fifteen of the nineteen hijackers were Saudi citizens. Post 9-11, America led by Bush started some military campaigns and cracked down on a number of rogue groups but left the Saudis, the font of Sunni Islamism, completely alone. They ignored the links between wealthy Saudis and terrorist groups.

    If the US can leave Saudi Arabia alone after 9-11, what chance is there that Trump will hold his Saudi mates' feet to the fire over the death of just one journalist?

  • Simon

    Western countries should generally stop dealing with Saudi Arabia as they have done but Oil + Money are a powerful convincer that ethics are overrated.

    But to take action suddenly over this one incident would be silly. They have been killing people for years - normal citizens in executions. This is a guy who was involved with middle-eastern politics, the Bin Ladens and all that, I almost wonder why the media is so keen to label him a 'journalist' when 'activist' may be more appropriate.

    But that leads us to the important thing - it's a story because they consider him a journalist. There's nothing journalists like to focus on more than threats to journalists.

    Sorry, but we should not be going to war for this guy. We should be stopping arms sales, but even self-righteous Canada isn't doing that.

    It's all talk, all rhetoric. Nothing will happen. Nothing with change. the mid-terms will take over the news cycle shortly and the world will move on.

    The saudis should stop being armed and eventually they will fall. We should let the Arab countries, the islamic sects, do what they have done for centuries - just kill each other.

    It's not our fight and we should stop sacrificing people to keep a peace that isn't wanted.

    If we wanted to save lives, we should stop allowing the saudis to export their extremism and build mega-mosques to recruit jihadists in the west.

  • _Morpheus

    Lets be clear about something, from an american perspective: he was not an american citizen. He was a bin laden ally. He was supporter of the muslim brootherhood, a terrorist organization. His opinion pieces in the washington post were all pro brotherhood.

    im supposed to cry tears for him? The USA is supposed to go to war, either literally or figuratively, for him?

    Get out of here.

    The saudi royal family is going through some major changes. This guy didnt support it because its seen as a move away from Wahhabism. The saudis arnt western style democracy's or even close, but they are slowly drifiting. This guy didnt like it and the saudis did what the saudis are known for doing. Its ugly and wrong, but its not americas job to change it.

    the arms sales and any other dealings go in a much bigger context of middle east policy. If america dosent stay involved the evil russians or chinese will be glad too.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    This is a guy who was involved with middle-eastern politics


    He was a bin laden ally. He was supporter of the muslim brootherhood, a terrorist organization

    Yes, he was. Here's a piece in the Spectator detailing Khashoggi's beliefs and .allegiances ...

    Khashoggi was a supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood.

    He wanted Islamism and Sharia, introduced by democratic mandate. This is how the MB is different from, say, ISIS. ISIS want Islamism and Sharia but through violence and force.

    So when luvvies fawn over him as a critic of the Saudi regime, they're right but they don't add the rest.

    I gotta admit that the Spectator article kinda stopped most if not all of my empathy for what Khashoggi went through.

    He was a key player in the murky worlds of Saudi politics and Arab Islamism and ended up getting burnt big time.

  • OneGenTwoGroups

    Trump loves the Saudis. He tends to love dictators that are antithetical to free speech.

    His "rogue killers" offering was not surprising to see for the absolutely disgusting regime that is the Saudi royal family.

    But do understand, center-right Obama would not have done anything different. He always kept the status quo as well.

    Go to war? No.

    Treat Saudi Arabia as the bad actor that it is? Yes. But there is no need to do drone strikes on schools and hospitals in SA.

    As long as SA has plenty of money to hand out, the corrupt political whores in charge will gladly play along.

  • Simon
    Trump loves the Saudis. He tends to love dictators that are antithetical to free speech.

    That's an invention with little to back it up.

    I can raise you an actual quote from Trudeau though when asked what his favourite country was. Easy question, right? US? UK? NewZealand? Lots of easy options to pick.

    No, he decided "China" but didn't leave it there, he explained why:

    "Because they have a really great dictatorship that makes it easy to govern".

    Yup, that's the tool WE have running our country. He's also doing all he can to further the spread of Islam and make it harder for people to voice criticism.

    Funny, but Trump is far less of an Islamic-suck-up than Obama or Trudeau and yet here you are trying to paint him as their ally.

    Obama openly supported the muslim brotherhood and gave favourable (to them) speeches that they were invited to

    Trump effective said "times are a changin, we're not putting up with this shit no more" but you are trying to paint him as the one pandering to them?

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Trump loves the Saudis. He tends to love dictators that are antithetical to free speech - yes he seems to.

    And so did Obama, Bush and the Clintons before him.

    In the UK it's the same. Owen Jones of The Guardian has recently started criticising the Saudi regime and pointing out that the Tories support it. This is true but so did Labour before them. I don't remember reading articles of his criticising Labour MPs for doing the same thing when they were in power. Owen Jones was too busy at the time sticking up for the right of Palestinians to fire rockets at Israel.

    In the US and UK, politicians from both sides of the political divide have dirt on their hands.

  • sir82

    Foot-dragging is allowing more suspicious stuff to occur.

    A Turkish newspaper reported on Oct. 18 that one of the suspects involved in the disappearance of Saudi writer Jamal Khashoggi died in a “suspicious car accident” in Riyadh.

    Mashal Saad al-Bostani, a 31-year-old lieutenant of the Saudi Royal Air Forces, was among the 15 suspects who arrived and left Turkey on Oct. 2 after going to Saudi Arabia’s Istanbul consulate when Khashoggi visited there, according to daily Yeni Şafak.

    The newspaper said sources did not release any details about the traffic accident in Riyadh and Bostani’s role in the “murder” was not yet clear.

    This could get (even more) ugly pretty fast.

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