slimboyfat joins the Christadelphians!

by slimboyfat 46 Replies latest members private

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I couldn't say this visit was terribly enjoyable, in the sense that I would want to repeat it often. But it was very interesting.

    In some sense the Christadelphians are among JWs' closest extant religious relatives. The similarities are instructive, as are the differences.

    On the way to the Christadelphian church (which, I later discovered, is studiously called an ekkelsia by the members) I swithered about going back to the Unitarians this week instead. Because I felt t home with the Unitarians, and I was a bit unsure if I would enjoy the experience of an exclusivist sect like the Christadelphians this morning.

    But I had researched the Christadelphians and taken some time to select which congregation to attend. There are around ten Christadelphian congregations in Scotland, about five of them within reasonable travelling distance. I suspected (and later confirmed) that some of the smallest congregations don't meet every week. In order to select a functioning congregation, I looked at the charity commission website to see which congregations are still active, judging by charitable donations and spending. So I selected what is called the "Glasgow Central Ekklesia", which is actually situated in what is, to my mind, the east end of Glasgow.

    Sandwished between two other churches (a Baptist hall and something else), from the outside the Christadelphian meeting place looks like a very old fashioned, run down Kingdom Hall. The same could be said for the inside, with the addition of an organ and hymn books. I dithered about using their car park, but instead opted to take a space on the road around the corner.

    As I approached the hall, I spotted and followed an older man who was pushing an even older woman in a wheel chair. As he realised I was following him, he asked me, a bit surprised, "are you coming in here?" I said yes. He said, "well the entrance is round the other way". Quite friendly. He was using the back door because of the wheel chair. So I went round to the front door instead, as he said, and entered.

    I had aforetime decided to present myself as a disillusioned JW who is interested in how Christadelphians compare. I hoped this would be received well, and it also happens to be pretty much accurate. The first woman who introduced herself was English, maybe around 50 years old and very friendly. She got me a hymn book and said I could not take communion with them, but I was very welcome to join them for the meeting, take literature from the hall and so on.

    Another man introduced himself to me, and quickly excused himself because he was "the doorman". I laughed at this comment, but I later realised this is not a joke. Apparently it's an important role within the church. Each meeting they select a "door man". I guess JWs also tend to have an "attendant" on the door these days (I don't remember this when I was young) but it seems like a slightly more significant role for Christadelphians, with a title. Anyway this man was the friendliest member of the church I encountered. Notwithstanding my opening comment, he made my visit enjoyable.

    So the door man was gone, doing whatever the door man does, when the meeting slowly began. And it took some while for the meeting to actually get going. Everything in a Christadelphian meeting seems to be in slow motion: at least compared with a JW meeting. At JW meetings everything is timed and all the elders are under pressure not exceed their allocations. In some halls there is a timer at the back, counting down the seconds. The Christadelphian meeting was completely different. The speaker took his time going on the platform and there were long silences between the songs and prayers and announcements. So much so I wondered if the meeting had actually finished during one of the long pauses.

    Another male Christadelphian approached me as the meeting was beginning and said, "you won't be allowed to partake the emblems, just so you know". And went on his way, Not as friendly as the first. For good measure, unaware that j had already been informed twice already, the door man returned and sat next to me and again told me I couldn't partake of the emblems. But he was very friendly about it. He put his arm on my shoulder and asked if I was okay with that. And he said I was welcome in the meeting, that is the main thing.

    The congregation is tiny and very old. I thought the Unitarians were old, but these folks are even older! I counted 23 people in attendance: 16 women and 7 men. There was one young couple in their 20s, another single woman in her 20s, two women in their 50s, two men in their 50s, and the rest were 60 years or older. I'd estimate there were at least 10 women in their 80s or 90s, mostly quite frail.

    By a strange coincidence (since this meeting is many miles from my home) I recognised one of the older women. She had shared a hospital ward with my grandmother three years ago. I was surprised that she's still active. She must be around 90. And she had travelled many miles to be there. In fact it was incredible how far people travelled. For people who know Scotland, this tiny aged congregation included people who had travelled from Largs, Dunoon, Dunfermline and Kilmarnock, as well as Glasgow itself. Quite incredible really. If this congregation is typical of the other Christadelphian congregations in Scotland (and conversation confirmed that it was) then there cannot be any more than 200 active Christadelphians in Scotland. In fact that may be a generous overestimate.

    All the women wore old fashioned Sunday hats, except the couple of younger women. They wore no hats until the meeting began, whereupon they covered their heads, one with a scarf, and the other with something more resembling a tea towel. So every woman had her head covered during the meeting. It struck me that everyone used Bibles and followed along. Not a tablet or a mobile in sight.

    The young couple in their 20s intrigued me. What were they doing here and what were they getting out of it? They just didn't seem to fit in. I guess them must be grandchildren of other members. This young couple carried fancy King James Bibles in their original boxes, which also struck me as peculiar. Others in attendance used old worn Bibles. This can't be new or irregular because the husband took part in the meeting. He read the first Bible reading.

    That's how the meeting began. The young man read Acts chapter 7 in full, with no comment. The reading was competent but not great. Then there was a song. It was an old style hymn and the congregation was pretty loud, for being little over 20 people. However nobody knew the second hymn and it was a bit of a washout, with everybody singing at the wrong time, and they kind of gave up in the end. The chairman made a joke of it.

    There followed a public talk style sermon. The speaker and chairman both had working class Glasgow accents. The talk was about "tradition". The speaker said that the word "tradition" is used so many times in the Bible, and categorised them into positive and negative instances of the word. This reminded me of the old Bible Student method of interpreting the Bible, concordance in hand. Then somehow he started taking about the flood. I failed to see the connection at first. Then he talked about chains of memory across generations. He said that some in the audience were great, great grandmothers, and that stories pass down generations. He also said there may have been billions of people alive on the earth at the time of the flood but that only eight people survived. The implication seemed to be clear: Christadelphians may be few in number, and shrinking, but God only chooses the righteous to live, even if they are few in number. Billions died in the flood and billions will die again in the future if they don't join the church. (Interestingly David Splane made a similar comment in one of the videos about Jehovah saving only 8 people in the flood, so not to be surprised if true worshippers are few in number)

    The speaker also made the comment that so many hundreds of thousands of people die every year. In fact he calculated that 8,500 people would die worldwide during the 1.25 hours long meeting that morning. At this point I couldn't suppress the mischevious thought, looking around the at aged congregation, and wondering what the probability was that one of the deaths would occur in that very room in real time,

    The speaker also made the comment that the Glasgow Central ekklesia was established 120 years ago and survives on a long and stable tradition. He emphasised that doctrine has not changed in that time, and only minor organisational changes have been necessary, mainly because of "changing world conditions". They are proud of the stability of their teachings and practice. But I wondered how long this congregation can go on functioning? The vast majority of the congregation will be too old to attend within ten or twenty years. Unless they have an influx of younger members it is difficult to see how they will continue much longer. Christadelphians in Scotland seem to be in an even more precarious position than Unitarians. There may be more slightly more Christadelphians at the moment, and more congregations, but they seem to be older and more infirm than Unitarians.

    Then they passed round the bread and the wine, which had been hidden under a tablecloth on the platform. All the congregation tore and ate tiny pieces of bread from two slices of bread on a plate. And all sipped the wine from one large silver chalice. It occurred to me I was pretty pleased not to be asked to sip the wine. I don't particularly like the idea of sharing a cup with upwards of 20 strangers. That thought hadn't occurred to me before. The situation doesn't arise in the Kingdom Hall.

    Then they collected money, two collections: one for the local church and the second for an Africa charity. The door man passed round the collection. He told me I needn't give anything, but I have my £1.50 donation to each collection.

    Apparently all the men (admittedly only 7 of them) in attendance had some role, including the youngest. They all had a part on the platform, either as chair, speaker, reader, or giving a prayer. There were around 6 prayers, including over the emblems (they use that word) as at the Memorial.

    At the end of the meeting they made an announcement that £120 had been collected the previous week for the church, and £90 for charity. There was also an announcement about a couple who were moving away to another congregation, and the titles of future talks were announced: exactly as they do at the Kingdom Hall.

    After the meeting I spoke with the "door man" for around half an hour. He told me that he grew up in the church, and used to attend in Bothwell Street (in central Glasgow, and probably explains the "central" name). All the members I spoke to had grown up in the church. The door man was pleased to talk to me about the church and its history and teachings. I showed him my Emphatic Diaglott I had taken along to the meeting in case it might be useful in the service or after in discussion. He seemed really surprised and pleased that someone was acquainted with and interested in the history of his church. He was not preachy. He was very kind and laid back. It was an enjoyable conversation. His wife joined in too. She was excited to share Christadelphian teachings and the reasons for them.

    In particular she explained that Christadelphians don't vote in elections because: "how do we know we don't vote for someone that God doesn't want?" Which is a bit of a different twist than JWs. We rattled through the many things JWs and Christadelphians agree on: no war, no Trinity, no hell, paradise earth, end times. Then briefly the differences: no personal devil, Israel in prophecy, autonomous congregations. Very interesting discussion.

    As it was time for me to go, I asked if I could take some booklets that were displayed in the hall. There were around 20 booklets on different topics, mainly the Bible and prophecy, but including an intriguing booklet on "avoiding cults". This booklet contains a section that seems to criticise others (implicitly JWs, I think) for shunning, but without unequivocally renouncing the practice themselves. It is very carefully worded. Apparently they think JWs shun too much, but that Christadelphians shun just the right amount.

    Looking af their literature display it concurred to me that, until this year, the literature output of the Christadelphians would have appeared pretty slight compared with Watchtower. But now they probably publish a broader range of materials than Watchtower does! How times change. Plus Christadelphians still publish their own magazine monthly. Which is pretty impressive when you consider there are only around 10,000 Christadelphians left in the United Kingdom -probably fewer than that - and mostly very elderly.

    The door man who spoke to me a long time said that often deaths and baptisms were announced in the Christadelphian magazine: surely a sign of just how tiny the community is, and how infrequent baptisms are. He did not disguise the fact the church is small and shrinking. But he also stressed it is a worldwide brotherhood and that there was some growth in Africa. In fact he had spent time supporting the church in Tanzania.

    On current trends it seems to me that Christadelphians will disappear in Britain, America and the West within a couple of decades. But they may well survive as an African church in Tanzania and a couple of other countries.

    Like the Unitarians, if anyone wants to experience a a Christadelphian church, they better do it soon because Christadelphians may not be around much longer: another tiny sect that may very soon be consigned to the history books.

  • nowwhat?
    nowwhat?

    Sbf , you sure get around!

  • notsurewheretogo
    notsurewheretogo

    Interesting...

    BUT...how is this group will disappear in ten years or so yet the WT, with 8 million members, is going to collaspe soon???? :)

    I love this bit..made me laugh....

    At this point I couldn't suppress the mischevious thought, looking around the at aged congregation, and wondering what the probability was that one of the deaths would occur in that very room in real time
  • amicabl
    amicabl

    SBF....This is becoming an interesting series on ageing people in dying religions. The parallels with Jwism are really noticeable.

  • careful
    careful

    Apparently they think JWs shun too much, but that Christadelphians shun just the right amount.

    LOL!

    Did you see this map of Christadelphian ekklesias in the USA?

    http://www.christadelphia.org/ustates_map.php

  • LevelThePlayingField
    LevelThePlayingField

    Maybe one day, people will say, "if you want to attend a church of the JW's, better do it soon, or they will be gone. They have hardly and money left anywhere."

    hey, who knows, right?

  • dropoffyourkeylee
    dropoffyourkeylee

    Wow, carefl, thats pretty sparse in the u s!

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Thank you, SBF, for your detailed accounts of church visits.

    I must be an armchair traveler to these churches because I don't dare visit the same in my community. The Christadelphians I found closest to my heart, well, what's left of it, spiritually speaking.

    Cheers.

    Edited to add: I went to a half-dozen sites, checking out church directories, and could find little beyond ecclesias in the San Francisco Bay Area and the Los Angeles region, California. If it were Scotland, I would cherish the travel . . .

    I will continue to search.

  • steve2
    steve2

    Thanks SBF for your captivating narrative. I was there.

    The embers of a once thriving religious community, Christadelphians are a telling example of what happens to an end-times religion when the end doesn't come. They either adapt (e.g., JWs) or fossilize (e.g., Christadelphians).

    The young couple in their 20s intrigued me. What were they doing here and what were they getting out of it? They just didn't seem to fit in.

    The likelihood of this couple having parents and/or grandparents in the movement is very high.

    In New Zealand's latest census (2013), there remain a few hundred who affiliate with the Christadelphians. From census to census they are a fast dwindling religion. I understand that in the late 1800s, there were thousands in NZ, well before the Bible Students came ashore.

    There's an old Christadelphian hall tucked behind some overgrown trees within 40 minutes drive from my home. That hall has seen far, far better days. It has a billboard by the road side announcing the next public speech which invariably is about Bible prophecy and the end.

    It is instructive to visit ex-Christadephian websites. With a change of terminology, they could be ex-JW sites.

  • careful
    careful

    SBF—the book for you?

    https://www.amazon.com/Christadelphians-America-Studies-American-Religion/dp/0889466475

    Here's a healthy looking group in Massachusetts:

    http://hopeinstoughton.org

    But it does say that the congregation comes "from all around Mass."

    One in California looks strong too:

    http://www.verdugohills.org/Welcome.html

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