Question for JW's: Is Jesus the Mediator of Your Prayers ? (page 2)

Acluetofindtheuser

Consuming the bread and wine is like taking new DNA code (flesh and blood) to replace Adam's junk DNA that we have in us now.

Sea Breeze

What if you don't pray?

My advice is to learn how to. Otherwise: "ye have not because ye ask not" - James: 4: 2

joey jojo

My advice is to learn how to. Otherwise: "ye have not because ye ask not" - James: 4: 2

"He makes the sun rise on both the evil and the good and sends rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous." Matt 5:45

Rattigan350

Jesus is the priest. Priests offered incense. Prayers are likened to incense offered. Thus Jesus is the priest that offers prayers or mediates prayers for us.

So Seabreeze, rethink your objections. This has nothing to do with the new covenant.

Sea Breeze

Jesus is the priest that... mediates prayers for us.

But that is not the sense specified in scripture, is it? No. "He is the Mediator of the New Covenant" - Hebrews 9: 15

This is the definition the Lord wants us to know.

I already illustrated what a mediator is by my own first hand experience in my opening post. Your description diminishes Jesus to an errand boy in my estimation.

Websters 1828 says this:

MEDIA'TOR, noun One that interposes between parties at variance for the purpose of reconciling them.

1. By way of eminence, Christ is the mediator the divine intercessor through whom sinners may be reconciled to an offended God. Tim.2.

Reconciliation is achieved only through the blood covering, the one JW's reject each Satanic version of the Lords supper.

Mt. 26: 26-28 : Jesus took bread, blessed it and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take and eat. This is My body.” Then He took the cup, and after He gave thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

@joey jojo

"He makes the sun rise on both the evil and the good and sends rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous." Matt 5:45

If all you are looking for is 70-80 years of sunshine and rain.... you are all good.

Rattigan350

Beth Sarim said "John 6: 53 clearly says if you dont eat the bread or drink the wine,,, you have no life in you."

And that only applied to the ones to whom he spoke. Why do people keep expanding and applying what Jesus and the apostles said beyond their audiences?

Rattigan350

Sea Breeze - LISTEN

PRAYERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT. NOTHING TO DO WITH COVENANTS.

I'll explain this to you.

Rev 5:8 specifically says "The incense means the prayers of the holy ones"

There was Moses. He was the mediator of the Law, or old covenant with Israel. The covenant mediator did not offer incense or sacrifices.

There was Aaron. He was the high priest. The priest offered incense and sacrifices, not the covenant mediator.

There was/is Jesus. He was the mediator of the new covenant with spiritual Israel.

There was/is Jesus. He was the high priest that offered sacrifices and is the one that descrambles our prayers to his Father, Jehovah God. Our prayers are like scrambled TV signals that need a descrambler to view them. That is why Jesus said 'I am the way, truth and life, no one comes to the Father except through me'

Praying in Jesus' name descrambles our prayers so God can accept them.

So you see, Jesus does both jobs. That of Moses and of Aaron, but they are two separate things. You are mixing them when they shouldn't be mixed just because he does them both.

Sea Breeze

He was the mediator of the new covenant with spiritual Israel.

Rattigan,

That isn't what scripture says is it? Scriptures says: "There is ONE mediator between God and men, a man Christ Jesus". "He is the Mediator of the New Covenant" - Hebrews 9: 15

Consider:

1. There are zero NT scriptures that explain how a person can get their sins forgiven OUTSIDE the new covenant.

2. The new covenant is "for the forgiveness of sins" for "many" not few. (See Mt. 26: 27-27)

3. The message of the Apostles and the Christian church is to be reconciled with God (2 Cor. 5: 18-19) Once you are reconciled to God, you are justified, meaning you have no sin debt.

4. The two-tier Salvation WT tries to sell was unknown to the apostles.

5. If anyone preaches a different message than the apostles, they are twice cursed. (See Gal. 1: 8-9)

6. Once we are justified, we have peace with God and are saved from his wrath (Romans 5: 1& 9)

7. Salvation is available to "whosoever" not limited. (John 3: 16, Acts 2: 21, Luke 112: 8, Romans 10: 13)

8. Jesus 3 times told Nicodemus that a person MUST be born again. When we are born again we get a new spirit, one that is sinless and can then fellowship with God. The Spirit of Christ then occupies the believers body (the true temple of God) See Col. 1: 26-27 & 2 Cor. 6: 16

The Watchtower denies every one of these points related to Salvation.

"Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." - Romans 8: 9

Rattigan350

" Scriptures says: "There is ONE mediator between God and men, a man Christ Jesus". NO, scripture didn't say that. Paul said that. While what Paul wrote, was written, it is not scripture. It is what Paul wrote to his readers. His use of the word 'mediator' there was not in relation to a covenant. He was just referring to how Jesus was between Jehovah God and humanity in the general sense.

Heb 9:15 & 12:24 was specifically about the new covenant.

"1. There are zero NT scriptures that explain how a person can get their sins forgiven OUTSIDE the new covenant."

There is nothing that says that the new covenant even is for the forgiveness of sins. The blood of Jesus is what forgives sins, not the covenant. Matt 26:28 does not imply that the covenant does that. "for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins". His blood will be poured out for the forgiveness of sins. The shed blood seals the covenant, but that does not forgive sins, it is the atonement that does that.

You have to understand that those who wrote the New Testament letters, didn't have full understanding and they wrote to their audience who were in the new covenant. 1 Pet 1:18,19 "For you know that it was not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, that you were set free from your futile way of life handed down to you by your forefathers. But it was with precious blood, like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb, that of Christ"
The apostles didn't know everything as they didn't have the Revelation. Rev 21:7 "Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son."
Rev 22:3 "And there will no longer be any curse."
Those apply to humans alive during and after the 1000 years who will not be in the new covenant.

"3. The message of the Apostles and the Christian church is to be reconciled with God (2 Cor. 5: 18-19) Once you are reconciled to God, you are justified, meaning you have no sin debt."

Except they still had sin in them otherwise they would not have died. God reconciled sinful humans to himself through Jesus. That just for how Jehovah will view humans like Is 1:18 "“Though your sins are like scarlet, They will be made as white as snow;". It hadn't fixed anything yet.

"4. The two-tier Salvation WT tries to sell was unknown to the apostles."

Of course it was unknown to the apostles and to Jesus. None of them had the Revelation yet. That's what the critics don't understand. Jesus and the apostles weren't all knowing. Even some of their teachings were changed in the Revelation. Jesus knew that some would be raised to heaven to serve with him. "the house of my Father are many dwelling places." But he may have thought it was only a few as in his apostles. But he didn't know the number 144,000 until the Revelation was given. The apostles never knew that. It was open ended to their teachings.

"5. If anyone preaches a different message than the apostles, they are twice cursed. (See Gal. 1: 8-9)"

Wow. If the Governing body said that you would be all over them. But the apostles said that and you eat it up. Reread my answer to #4. They didn't know everything so we don't want to stick to the old light of the apostles.

Also read the context. Gal 1:6 "I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news". So they were called to the good news and then quickly turned to another. He doesn't say what that is. "there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ." He doesn't say how it is distorted. Most likely saying that Jesus is God. "Even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed." Hmmm. So who is the "we"? Just Paul's little group? The apostles as a whole? The angel out of heaven is the one that conveyed the Revelation to John. Is Paul cursing that angel that gave the Revelation? Paul is saying that he is above and beyond God's further word. What Paul wrote here is too vague for us and it was written to his audience there.

"6. Once we are justified, we have peace with God and are saved from his wrath (Romans 5: 1& 9)"

Who is this we? It is his audience Rom 1:7 "to all those who are in Rome as God’s beloved ones, called to be holy ones". Revelation doesn't agree with your statement there. His wrath goes on many that thought they were saved.

"7. Salvation is available to "whosoever" not limited. (John 3: 16, Acts 2: 21, Luke 112: 8, Romans 10: 13)" Salvation is not heaven only. Heaven is available for the 144,000 only . But the rest of humanity will either live through the great tribulation or be resurrected to live in it for the 1000 years.

"8. Jesus 3 times told Nicodemus that a person MUST be born again. When we are born again we get a new spirit, one that is sinless and can then fellowship with God." You contradicted yourself here. Jesus told Nicodemus, not you or anyone else today.

Since Jesus told Nicodemus that it must refer to something true about him. What was true about him and those like him? They were born into a covenant, the Law covenant. And they need to be born into another covenant, the new one. Thus the being born again. They needed to be born of water (baptism) and spirit (anointed by holy spirit). That was them, not us.

"The Watchtower denies every one of these points related to Salvation." No, you just want to apply everything to you without considering context.

Question for JW's: Is Jesus the Mediator of Your Prayers ?

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