All About Jesus Christ

by UnDisfellowshipped 66 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JLOB
    JLOB

    You have one small problem UD.

    JESUS was the Anti-Christ!

    What did the Christ say to the Devil when he spent 40 days in the desert? He rebuked the devil when the devil offered the world to him. The devil said he would have every knee bow down and worhip the Christ and the Christ pushed back against Satan. It was never the Christ intention to have the world worhip him.

    Also check out what Revelations says about the Anti-Christ... crown of thorns, speaking in tounges, healing the sick, quoting scripture....Sounds like JESUS.

    I think there is a distinct difference between JESUS and Christ.

    Just some food for thought.

    PS I think the points you made about JW's take on Jesus was well put and does a good job exposing their perverted view on JESUS and the Christ.

  • heathen
    heathen

    Undifellowshipped-- I agree , they miss the mark with what you posted. Jesus was not born with sin nor did he sin during his human existence so there would have been nothing corrupt about his flesh and another point that has been made on previous threads was the part where Jesus tells the pharisees " Tear down this temple and I will raise it up in 3 days." So what is the WT trying to say ? jesus raised his temple only to have jehovah vaporize it? Unbelievable the stupidity from them. JLOB-- Try reading the part when Jesus was resurected and then says he has all authority in heaven and on earth.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Thanks for all of your comments!

    I will try to reply to them soon.

    First, I am going to reply to JLOB's comments:

    JLOB said:

    You have one small problem UD.
    JESUS was the Anti-Christ!
    What did the Christ say to the Devil when he spent 40 days in the desert? He rebuked the devil when the devil offered the world to him. The devil said he would have every knee bow down and worhip the Christ and the Christ pushed back against Satan. It was never the Christ intention to have the world worhip him.

    What was the actual reason Jesus rebuked Satan?

    Matthew 4:8: Again, the Devil took Him [Jesus] to an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory.
    Matthew 4:9: He said to Him, "I will give You all of these things, if You will fall down and worship me."
    Matthew 4:10: Then Jesus said to him, "Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve.'"

    So JLOB, basically you are saying that in order for you to believe that the Christ deserves to be worshiped, Christ would have had to worship Satan so He could take control of all the nations???

    Christ created Satan, Christ created all things and all people -- and are you trying to say that Christ does not deserve to be worshiped?

    If Christ did not desire worship, why did He say: "that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who doesn't honor the Son doesn't honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:23)

    JLOB said:

    Also check out what Revelations says about the Anti-Christ... crown of thorns, speaking in tounges, healing the sick, quoting scripture....Sounds like JESUS.

    I have not seen anywhere in Revelation where it says that anyone is wearing a "crown of thorns" or "speaking in tongues".

    I think this may be the Verse you are thinking of about the Anti-Christ wearing a crown:

    Revelation 6:2: And behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow. A crown was given to him, and he came forth conquering, and to conquer.

    Some people believe that is the Anti-Christ, and some people believe that is the Christ in Revelation 6:2. But either way, it does not say he has a "crown of thorns".

    Also, where does the Bible say that Jesus spoke in tongues?

    JLOB said:

    I think there is a distinct difference between JESUS and Christ.
    Just some food for thought.

    Thanks for your comments, but I don't believe there is any difference whatsoever. Jesus is The Christ.

    JLOB said:

    PS I think the points you made about JW's take on Jesus was well put and does a good job exposing their perverted view on JESUS and the Christ.

    Thank You.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Here is a new Article I just put together (whenever I write new Articles about Jesus in the future, I will post them on this Thread).

    Did the Apostles and Disciples Worship Jesus Christ in the Same Way they Worshiped The Father?

    By UnDisfellowshipped ( UnDisfellowshipped@yahoo.com ), March 29th 2003.

    This gets interesting because the Watchtower Society used to teach Jehovah's Witnesses to worship Jesus Christ, even though they taught that Jesus was Michael, a created angel!

    The Watchtower, November 1879 (When Charles Taze Russell was President):

    "His position is contrasted with men and angels, as he is Lord of both, having 'all power in heaven and earth'. Hence it is said, 'Let all of the angels of God worship him' [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because he has 'by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.'"

    (NOTE: The Bracketed Comment about Michael was in the original Magazine)
    _____________________________________

    The Watchtower Reprints, March 1880, Page 83 (When Charles Taze Russell was President):

    "And although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him (Jesus Christ), it evidently could not be improper so to do; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshipped him. - Matt. 28: 9, 17"
    _____________________________________

    The Watchtower Reprints, April 15th 1893, Page 1515 (When Charles Taze Russell was President):

    "It is since his resurrection that the message has gone forth - 'All power in heaven and in earth is given unto me.' (Matt. 28:18) Consequently it is only since then that he could be called the Almighty (as in Rev. 1:8)"
    _____________________________________

    The Watchtower Reprints, July 15th 1898, Page 2337 (When Charles Taze Russell was President):

    "Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshipped, and properly so. While he was not the God, Jehovah, he was a God."
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    The Watchtower Reprints, May 15th 1892, Page 1410 (When Charles Taze Russell was President):

    "to worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong"
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    Zion's Watchtower July 15th 1898 Issue (When Charles Taze Russell was President):

    Worshipping Jesus Christ is a duty of the believers
    _____________________________________

    Studies in the Scriptures Volume 7 - The Finished Mystery (1917 Edition):

    Page 15:

    "....I am THE Alpha and I AM ALSO THE Omega. - Alpha is the first letter, and Omega the last letter, of the Greek alphabet. The Beginning and the Ending. -Our Lord's great honor is shown in that He was not only the first of God's creation, but the last. From this we are to understand that the great Jehovah did not directly employ His own power in creating either men or angels; but that He delegated His power to His Only-begotten Son. --Z. '93-115; Rev. 1:4; 16:5-7."

    Page 188:

    "Michael, - 'Who as God,' the Pope"

    Page 318:

    "....And He (said) SAITH unto me, (it is done,) I am Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.-" It was the Father's good pleasure that the Blessed One, the Only Begotten of the Father, should accomplish the entire program of redemption and restitution;"
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    The Watchtower, August 15th 1941 Issue, Page 252:

    "the Father will see to it that all creation shall worship the Son"
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    Official Watchtower Society Charter, 1945:

    "The purposes of this Society are: To act as the servant of and the legal world-wide governing agency for that body of Christian persons known as Jehovah's Witnesses to preach the gospel of God's kingdom under Christ Jesus unto all nations as a witness to the name, word and supremacy of Almighty God JEHOVAH; to print and distribute Bibles and to disseminate Bible truths in various languages by means of making and publishing literature containing information and comment explaining Bible truths and prophecy concerning establishment of Jehovah's kingdom under Christ Jesus to authorize and appoint agents, servants, employees, teachers, instructors, evangelists, missionaries and ministers to go forth to all the world publicly and from house to house to preach and teach Bible truths to persons willing to listen by leaving with such persons said literature and by conducting Bible studies thereon to improve men, women and children mentally and morally by Christian missionary work and by charitable and benevolent instruction of the people on the Bible and incidental scientific, historical and literary subjects to establish and maintain private Bible schools and classes for gratuitous instruction of men and women in the Bible, Bible literature and Bible history; to teach, train, prepare and equip men and women as ministers, missionaries, evangelists, preachers, teachers and lecturers to provide and maintain homes, places and buildings for gratuitous housing of such students, lecturers, teachers and ministers; to furnish gratuitously to such students, lecturers, teachers, educators and ministers suitable meals and lodging and to prepare, support, maintain and send out to various parts of the world Christian missionaries, teachers and instructors in the Bible and Bible literature and for public Christian worship of Almighty God and Christ Jesus; ..."

    ______________________________________

    Make Sure of All Things Book (1953 Edition), Page 85:

    "Christ to Be Worshipped as a Glorious Spirit, Victorious over Death on the Torture Stake."
    _____________________________________

    Then, the Watchtower Society changes their mind, and says DO NOT WORSHIP JESUS!:

    The Watchtower January 1st 1954 Issue, Page 31:

    "Consequently, since the Scriptures teach that Jesus Christ is not a trinitarian co-person with God the Father, but is a distinct person, the Son of God, the answer to the above question must be that no distinct worship is to be rendered to Jesus Christ now glorified in heaven."

    "prayer itself is addressed, not to Jesus, but to God his Father. "
    _____________________________________

    The Watchtower, May 15th 1954 Issue, Page 318:

    So in the book of Hebrews pros·ky·ne´o is both times rendered “worship” and the angels of God are instructed to “worship” the glorified Jesus. Why is this? Because Jesus has been made so much higher than the angels, even higher than he was before he became a man on earth. (Phil. 2:5-11) It is the command of Jehovah God that they do this toward his Son.

    [...]

    Well, then, since the angels are commanded to worship the glorified Jesus at his second coming, should not we, who, as humans, are so much less than angels, likewise worship him? In answer we say, We must render to him what God’s Word says we must.

    At Revelation 19:10 and 22:9 the angel whom the glorified Jesus sent to the apostle John said to John: “Worship [pros·ky·ne´o] God,” meaning Jehovah God. Jesus’ angel (Rev. 1:1, 2; 22:16) told John, a man on earth, to worship, not Jesus, but God, Jehovah God the Father of Jesus. That is the One whom Jehovah’s witnesses worship.

    [...]

    And the angels of heaven obey the command of God and “worship” his Son only as their worship of the Son is related to the worship of his Father Jehovah God. But, keeping things in their relative positions, angels and Jehovah’s witnesses worship Jehovah God as the one Almighty God, uncreated, unbegotten, “from everlasting to everlasting.”—Ps. 90:2.
    _____________________________________

    The Watchtower July 15th 1959 Issue, Page 421:

    "Do not erroneously conclude that Christians are to worship Christ; that is not what he taught."
    _____________________________________

    "The Word Who Is He? According to John" Book (1962 Edition):

    Pages 4-5:

    "Of course, the Bible reader who uses the generally accepted versions or translations will at once say; 'Why, there should be no difficulty about knowing who the Word is. It plainly says that the Word is God; and God is God.' But, in answer, we must say that not all our newer modern translations by Greek scholars read that way, So in the above-quoted Bible translations we are confronted with the expressions 'God' 'divine' 'god of a sort,' 'god, and 'a god,' Men who teach a triune God, Trinity, strongly object to the translation 'a god.'

    They say, among other things, that it means to believe in polytheism. Or they call it Unitarianism or Arianism."

    Page 40:

    "So again we note that Jesus never spoke of himself as God or called himself God. He always put himself below God rather than on an equality with God."
    _____________________________________

    Make Sure of All Things Book (1965 Edition):

    Page 485:

    "Jesus Christ Not One God with the Father

    "The Father is Jesus' God"

    "Jesus called his Father the "only true God," excluding himself"

    "Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son"

    Page 486:

    "Jesus is, not God, but Mediator between God and men"

    "Jesus did not claim to be God, but God's representative"

    "Jesus Not Equal to the Father in Power and Glory, but Subject to Him"

    "Even in heaven he is subject to the Father"

    "Only Jehovah Is from Everlasting to Everlasting"

    Page 487:

    "Son of God had a beginning, was created"

    "Oneness of Father and Son No More Mysterious than Unity of True Christians."
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    The Watchtower, November 15th 1970 Issue, Page 703:

    As with the Hebrew term, the context must be considered to determine whether pro·sky·neo refers to obeisance solely in the form of deep respect or obeisance in the form of religious worship. Where reference is directly to God (John 4:20-24; 1 Cor. 14:25) or to false gods and their idols (Acts 7:43; Rev. 9:20), it is evident that the obeisance goes beyond that acceptably or customarily rendered to men and enters the field of worship. So, too, where the object of the obeisance is left unstated, its being directed to God being understood. (John 12:20; Acts 8:27; Heb. 11:21) On the other hand, the action of those of the “synagogue of Satan” who are made to “come and do obeisance” before the feet of Christians is clearly not worship.—Rev. 3:9.

    [...]

    While earlier prophets and also angels had accepted obeisance, Peter stopped Cornelius from rendering such to him. And the angel (or angels) of John’s vision twice stopped John from doing so, referring to himself as a “fellow slave” and concluding with the exhortation to “worship God.”—Acts 10:25, 26; Rev. 19:10; 22:8, 9.

    Evidently Christ’s coming had brought in new relationships affecting standards of conduct toward others of God’s servants. He taught his disciples that “one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers . . . your Leader is one, the Christ.” (Matt. 23:8-12) For it was in him that the prophetic figures and types found their fulfillment, even as the angel told John that “the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying.” (Rev. 19:10) Jesus was David’s Lord, the greater than Solomon, the prophet greater than Moses. (Luke 20:41-43; Matt. 12:42; Acts 3:19-24) The obeisance rendered those men prefigured that due Christ. Peter therefore rightly refused to let Cornelius make too much of him.

    So, too, John, by virtue of having been declared righteous or justified by God as an anointed Christian, called to be a heavenly son of God and a member of his Son’s kingdom, was in a different relationship to the angel(s) of the revelation than were the Israelites to whom angels earlier appeared. As the apostle Paul had written: “Do you not know that we shall judge angels?” (1 Cor. 6:3) The angel(s) evidently recognized this change of relationship when rejecting John’s obeisance.

    On the other hand, Christ Jesus has been exalted by his Father to a position second only to God, so that “in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”—Phil. 2:9-11; compare Daniel 7:13, 14, 27.

    In view of all this, how are we to understand Hebrews 1:6, which shows that even the angels render “worship” to the resurrected Jesus Christ? While many translations of this text render pro·sky·néo as “worship,” some render it by such expressions as “bow before” (The Bible—An American Translation) and “pay homage” (The New English Bible). No matter what English term is used, the original Greek remains the same and the understanding of what it is that the angels render to Christ must accord with the rest of the Scriptures.

    If the rendering “worship” is preferred, then it must be understood that such “worship” is only of a relative kind. For Jesus himself emphatically stated to Satan that “it is Jehovah your God you must worship [form of pro·sky·ne?o], and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matt. 4:8-10; Luke 4:7, 8) True, Psalm 97, which the apostle evidently quotes at Hebrews 1:6, refers to Jehovah God as the object of the ‘bowing down,’ and still this text was applied to Christ Jesus. (Ps. 97:1, 7) However, the apostle previously had shown that the resurrected Christ became the “reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being.” (Heb. 1:1-3) Hence, if what we understand as “worship” is apparently directed to the Son by angels, it is in reality being directed through him to Jehovah God, the Sovereign Ruler, “the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.”—Rev. 14:7; 4:10, 11; 7:11, 12; 11:16, 17; compare 1 Chronicles 29:20; Revelation 5:13, 14.
    ____________________________________

    My Book of Bible Stories (1978), Story 86:

    Men Guided by a Star

    CAN you see that bright star one of these men is pointing to? When they left Jerusalem, the star appeared. These men are from the East, and they study the stars. They believe that this new star is leading them to someone important.

    When the men got to Jerusalem, they asked: ‘Where is the child who is to be king of the Jews?’ “Jews” is another name for Israelites. ‘We first saw the child’s star when we were in the East,’ the men said, ‘and we have come to worship him.’

    When Herod, who is king at Jerusalem, heard about this he got upset. He did not want another king to take his place. So Herod called the chief priests and asked: ‘Where will the promised king be born?’ They answered: ‘The Bible says in Beth´le·hem.’

    So Herod called the men from the East, and said: ‘Go make a search for the young child. When you find him, let me know. I want to go and worship him too.’ But, really, Herod wanted to find the child to kill him!

    Story 109:

    Cornelius has gathered together his relatives and close friends. When Peter comes, Cornelius meets him. He falls down and bows at Peter’s feet, as you see here. But Peter says: ‘Rise; I myself am only a man.’ Yes, the Bible shows that it is not right to bow down and worship a man. We should worship only Jehovah.
    ____________________________________

    Should You Believe in the Trinity Brochure (1989 Edition):

    Page 14:

    "Jesus, in his prehuman existence, was 'the first-born of all creation.' (Colossians 1:15, NJB) He was 'the beginning of God's creation.' (Revelation 3:14, RS, Catholic edition). 'Beginning' (Greek, ar-khe') cannot rightly be interpreted to mean that Jesus was the 'beginner' of God's creation. In his Bible writings, John uses various forms of the Greek work ar-khe' more than 20 times, and these always have the common meaning of 'beginning.' Yes, Jesus was created by God as the beginning of God's invisible creations."

    Page 15:

    "The Bible calls Jesus the 'only-begotten Son' of God. (John 1:14; 3:16, 18: 1 John 4:9) Trinitarians say that since God is eternal, so the Son of God is eternal. But how can a person be a son and at the same time be as old as his father?"
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    Reasoning From the Scriptures Book (1989), Pages 214-215:

    Does the fact that worship is given to Jesus prove that he is God?

    At Hebrews 1:6, the angels are instructed to “worship” Jesus, according to the rendering of RS, TEV, KJ, JB, and NAB. NW says “do obeisance to.” At Matthew 14:33, Jesus’ disciples are said to have “worshiped” him, according to RS, TEV, KJ; other translations say that they “showed him reverence” (NAB), “bowed down before him” (JB), “fell at his feet” (NE), “did obeisance to him” (NW).

    The Greek word rendered “worship” is pro·sky·ne´o, which A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature says was also “used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a person and kissing his feet, the hem of his garment, the ground.” (Chicago, 1979, Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker; second English edition; p. 716) This is the term used at Matthew 14:33 to express what the disciples did toward Jesus; at Hebrews 1:6 to indicate what the angels are to do toward Jesus; at Genesis 22:5 in the Greek Septuagint to describe what Abraham did toward Jehovah and at Genesis 23:7 to describe what Abraham did, in harmony with the custom of the time, toward people with whom he was doing business; at 1 Kings 1:23 in the Septuagint to describe the prophet Nathan’s action on approaching King David.

    At Matthew 4:10 (RS), Jesus said: “You shall worship [from pro·sky·ne´o] the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.” (At Deuteronomy 6:13, which Jesus is evidently here quoting, appears the personal name of God, the Tetragrammaton.) In harmony with that, we must understand that it is pro·sky·ne´o with a particular attitude of heart and mind that should be directed only toward God.
    _____________________________________

    The Watchtower, February 1st 1991 Issue, Page 17:

    "Jesus Christ further deserves honor because he is Jehovah's chief angel, or archangel. On what basis do we reach that conclusion? Well, the prefix "arch," meaning "chief" or "principal," implies that there is only one archangel. God's Word speaks of him in reference to the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. We read: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first." (1 Thessalonians 4:16) This archangel has a name, as we read at Jude 9: "When Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses' body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: 'May Jehovah rebuke you.'" In not running ahead of Jehovah by daring to bring judgment against the Devil, Jesus thus honored his heavenly Father."
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    The Watchtower, January 15th 1992 Issue, Page 23:

    Hebrews 1:6 relates to Jesus’ position under God. (Philippians 2:9-11) Here some versions render pro·sky·ne´o “pay . . . homage” (The New English Bible), “do obeisance to” (New World Translation), or “bow before” (An American Translation). If one prefers the rendering “worship,” such worship is relative, for Jesus told Satan: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship [form of pro·sky·ne´o], and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.”—Matthew 4:8-10.

    Though Psalm 97:7, which speaks about worshiping God, was applied to Christ at Hebrews 1:6, Paul had shown that the resurrected Jesus is “the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being.” (Hebrews 1:1-3) So any “worship” the angels give God’s Son is relative and is directed through him to Jehovah.
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    The Watchtower, November 1st 1993 Issue, Page 4:

    "Religious leaders of Christendom... replaced the name Jehovah with “God” (“Allah” in Arabic) and “Lord.” That contributed to the development of the false doctrine of the Trinity, which has no basis in the Holy Scriptures. Because of this, millions mistakenly worship Jesus and the holy spirit and consider them equal to God."

    Page 23:

    "In 1914, Jesus; the heavenly warrior Michael; became King of God's heavenly Kingdom. (Revelation 11:15; 12:7-9)"
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    The Watchtower February 1st 1994 Issue, Page 6:

    "The book of Revelation explains: "War broke out in heaven: Michael [the resurrected Jesus Christ] and his angels battled with the dragon [Satan], and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven."
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    The Watchtower July 15th 1995 Issue, Page 5:

    "The Bible also describes what happened shortly after Jesus' enthronement. It says: "War broke out in heaven: Michael [Jesus Christ] and his angels battled with the dragon [Satan the Devil], and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven."
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    Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life Book (1995 Edition):

    Page 32:

    "Others have distorted Jesus' role, worshipping him as Almighty God."

    Page 39:

    "Jesus was called God's 'only begotten Son' because Jehovah created him directly. (John 3:16) As 'the firstborn of all creation,' Jesus was then used by God to create all other things. (Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14)"
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    The Watchtower November 1st 1995 Issue, Page 8:

    "The foremost angel, both in power and authority, is the archangel, Jesus Christ, also called Michael."
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    Awake!, April 8th 2000 Issue, Pages 26-27:

    The Bible’s Viewpoint

    Is It Proper to Worship Jesus?

    THROUGHOUT the centuries, many in Christendom have worshiped Jesus Christ as if he were Almighty God. Jesus himself, however, directed attention and worship only to Jehovah God. For example, when prodded to do an act of worship to the Devil, Jesus said: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matthew 4:10) Later Jesus instructed his disciples: “Do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.”—Matthew 23:9.

    To a Samaritan woman, Jesus described the type of worship that individuals must give to God. Their worship must be based on spirit and truth. Indeed, “the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.” (John 4:23, 24) Yes, reverent adoration should be expressed only to God. To render worship to anyone or anything else would be a form of idolatry, which is condemned in both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures.—Exodus 20:4, 5; Galatians 5:19, 20.

    ‘But,’ some may counter, ‘does the Bible not indicate that we must also worship Jesus? Did Paul not say at Hebrews 1:6: “Let all the angels of God worship him [Jesus]”?’ (King James Version) How can we understand this scripture in the light of what the Bible says about idolatry?

    Worship in the Bible

    First, we have to understand what Paul meant here by worship. He used the Greek word pro·sky·ne´o. Unger’s Bible Dictionary says that this word literally means to ‘kiss the hand of someone in token of reverence or to do homage.’ An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, says that this word “denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to man . . . or to God.” In Bible times pro·sky·ne´o often included literally bowing down before someone of high stature.

    Consider the parable Jesus gave of the slave who was unable to repay a substantial sum of money to his master. A form of this Greek word appears in this parable, and in translating it the King James Version says that “the servant therefore fell down, and worshipped [form of pro·sky·ne´o] him [the king], saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.” (Matthew 18:26; italics ours.) Was this man committing an idolatrous act? Not at all! He was merely expressing the kind of reverence and respect due the king, his master and superior.

    Such acts of obeisance, or expressions of respect, were fairly common in the Orient of Bible times. Jacob bowed down seven times upon meeting his brother, Esau. (Genesis 33:3) Joseph’s brothers prostrated themselves, or did obeisance, before him in honor of his position at the Egyptian court. (Genesis 42:6) In this light we can better understand what happened when the astrologers found the young child Jesus, whom they recognized as “the one born king of the Jews.” As rendered in the King James Version, the account tells us that they “fell down, and worshipped [pro·sky·ne´o] him.”—Matthew 2:2, 11.

    Clearly, then, the word pro·sky·ne´o, rendered “worship” in some Bible translations, is not reserved exclusively for the type of adoration due Jehovah God. It can also refer to the respect and honor shown to another person. In an effort to avoid any misunderstanding, some Bible translations render the word pro·sky·ne´o at Hebrews 1:6 as “pay him homage” (New Jerusalem Bible), “honour him” (The Complete Bible in Modern English), “bow down before him” (Twentieth Century New Testament), or “do obeisance to him” (New World Translation).

    Jesus Is Worthy of Obeisance

    Is Jesus worthy of such obeisance? Most decidedly, yes! In his letter to the Hebrews, the apostle Paul explains that as the “heir of all things,” Jesus has “sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places.” (Hebrews 1:2-4) Thus, “in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”—Philippians 2:10,11.

    Outstandingly, Christ will soon use this exalted position and the extensive executive powers that go with it to transform this earth into a global paradise. Under God’s direction, and as a result of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus, he will rid the world of all sadness, pain, and sorrow for the benefit of those who submit to his righteous rule. Is he therefore not worthy of our honor, respect, and obedience?—Psalm 2:12; Isaiah 9:6; Luke 23:43; Revelation 21:3, 4.

    “A God Exacting Exclusive Devotion”

    The Bible clearly indicates, however, that our worship—in the sense of religious reverence and devotion—must be addressed solely to God. Moses described him as “a God exacting exclusive devotion.” And the Bible exhorts us to “worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.”—Deuteronomy 4:24; Revelation 14:7.

    Jesus certainly occupies a pivotal role in true worship, one worthy of honor and respect. (2 Corinthians 1:20, 21; 1 Timothy 2:5) He is the only way through which we are able to approach Jehovah God. (John 14:6) Accordingly, true Christians do well to direct their worship only to Jehovah God, the Almighty.
    __________________________________________

    Check out the following changes in the Watchtower's Bible (New World Translation):

    New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (1950, 1961, and 1970 Editions):

    Hebrews 1:6: "But when He again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: 'And let all God's angels worship him'

    COMPARE THAT WITH THIS:

    New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (1971, 1980, and 1984 Editions):

    Hebrews 1:6: "But when He again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: 'And let all God's angels do obeisance to him'
    --------------------------------------

    Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Holy Scriptures (1985 Edition), Page 529:

    Reference to Jesus as "Ho Theos" (The God)

    COMPARE THAT WITH THIS:

    The Watchtower July 1st 1986 Issue, Page 31:

    "The title ho theos (the God, or God) which now designates the Father as a personal reality, is not applied in the N(ew) T(estament) to Jesus Himself."
    ____________________________________________

    What does the Bible actually say about Worshiping Jesus?

    Below are Scriptures (from the 1984 New World Translation) which show that Jesus Christ was indeed Worshiped by the Apostles and Disciples, as well as the angels and all Christians:

    Isaiah 9:6: For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God [Footnote: Mighty God of Times Indefinite], Eternal Father [Footnote: Father Forever], Prince of Peace.

    John 20:26: Well, eight days later his disciples were again indoors, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, although the doors were locked, and he stood in their midst and said: “May you have peace.”
    John 20:27: Next he said to Thomas: “Put your finger here, and see my hands, and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop being unbelieving but become believing.”
    John 20:28: In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”
    John 20:29: Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.”

    John 5:21: For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes those alive whom he wants to.
    John 5:22: For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son,
    John 5:23: in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
    John 5:24: Most truly I say to you, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life.

    Revelation 5:8: And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense, and the [incense] means the prayers of the holy ones.
    Revelation 5:9: And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
    Revelation 5:10: and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
    Revelation 5:11: And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,
    Revelation 5:12: saying with a loud voice: “The Lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”
    Revelation 5:13: And every creature that is in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, I heard saying: “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.”
    Revelation 5:14: And the four living creatures went saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

    Below are Scriptures (which are NOT from the New World Translation) which show that Jesus Christ was indeed Worshiped by the Apostles and Disciples, as well as the angels and all Christians:

    Hebrews 1:6: Again, when He [The Father] brings in the Firstborn [Jesus] into the world He says, "Let all the angels of God worship Him."

    Matthew 14:25: In the fourth watch of the night [3 AM to 6 AM], Jesus came to them, walking on the sea.
    Matthew 14:26: When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, "It's a ghost!" and they cried out for fear.
    Matthew 14:27: But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying "Cheer up! I AM! Don't be afraid."
    Matthew 14:28: Peter answered Him and said, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the waters."
    Matthew 14:29: He said, "Come!" Peter stepped down from the boat, and walked on the waters to come to Jesus.
    Matthew 14:30: But when he saw that the wind was strong, he was afraid, and beginning to sink, he cried out, saying, "Lord, save me!"
    Matthew 14:31: Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand, took hold of him, and said to him, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?"
    Matthew 14:32: When they got up into the boat, the wind ceased.
    Matthew 14:33: Those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, "You are truly the Son of God!"

    Matthew 28:7: Go quickly and tell His disciples, 'He has risen from the dead, and behold, He goes before you into Galilee; there you will see Him.' Behold, I have told you."
    Matthew 28:8: They departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word.
    Matthew 28:9: As they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, "Rejoice!" They came and took hold of His feet, and worshiped Him.

    Luke 24:50: He [Jesus] led them out as far as Bethany, and He lifted up His hands, and blessed them.
    Luke 24:51: It happened, while He blessed them, that He withdrew from them, and was carried up into Heaven.
    Luke 24:52: They worshiped Him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,
    Luke 24:53: and were continually in the Temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

    John 9:35: Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of God?"
    John 9:36: He answered, "Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?"
    John 9:37: Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and it is He who speaks with you."
    John 9:38: He said, "Lord, I believe!" and he worshiped Him.

    Psalm 2:12: Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish in the way, For His wrath will soon be kindled. Blessed are all those who take refuge in Him.

    Joshua 5:13: It happened, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a Man over against him with His sword drawn in His hand: and Joshua went to Him, and said to Him, Are You for us, or for our adversaries?
    Joshua 5:14: He said, No; but as the Head of the Army of Jehovah I now come. Joshua fell on his face to the Earth, and did worship, and said to Him, What does my Lord say to His servant?
    Joshua 5:15: The Head of Jehovah's Army said to Joshua, Put off your shoe from off your foot; for the place on which you stand is Holy. Joshua did so.

    Exodus 3:2: The Messenger of Jehovah appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
    Exodus 3:3: Moses said, I will turn aside now, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
    Exodus 3:4: When Jehovah saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the midst of the bush, and said, "Moses! Moses!" He said, "Here I am."
    Exodus 3:5: He said, "Don't come close. Take off your sandals from off your feet, for the place you are standing on is Holy Ground."
    Exodus 3:6: Moreover He said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look at God.
    Exodus 3:7: Jehovah said, "I have surely seen the affliction of My people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters, for I know their sorrows.
    Exodus 3:8: I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey; to the place of the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Amorite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
    Exodus 3:9: Now, behold, the cry of the children of Israel has come to Me. Moreover I have seen the oppression with which the Egyptians oppress them.
    Exodus 3:10: Come now therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh, that you may bring forth My people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt."
    Exodus 3:11: Moses said to God, "Who am I, that I should go to Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?"
    Exodus 3:12: He said, "Certainly I will be with you. This will be the token to you, that I have sent you: when you have brought forth the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain."
    Exodus 3:13: Moses said to God, "Behold, when I come to the children of Israel, and tell them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you;' and they ask me, 'What is His Name?' What should I tell them?"
    Exodus 3:14: God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM," and He said, "You shall tell the children of Israel this: "I AM has sent me to you."
    Exodus 3:15: God said moreover to Moses, "You shall tell the children of Israel this, 'Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My Name forever, and this is My Memorial to all generations.

  • JLOB
    JLOB

    Heathen,

    The Christ raised from the dead and was resurected, I believe that firmly. Once again there is a difference between Christ and Jesus.

    UD,

    I appriciate you completely as well. I believe your heart and faith is in the right place. You are trying to teach the right lessons. We all can benifit from the lessons the real Christ taught us, but I also believe that many will learn to hate and miss the truth through fasly worshipping a man name Jesus.

    Good catch on the Desert conversation between Jesus and Satan. Satan did ask Jesus to worship him. Satan also showed us his plan, he wanted the world to worship Jesus. The Christ would have no part of that.

    I believe that there was a man that had the Christ so manisfested in him that he lived a sinless life. I belive that man died and was resureected. I believe that we all have the same Christ within us but are not nearly as faithful as that man was. That man served as a living example that it can be done, we all need to try to follow his lead.

    When the Christ was killed, GOD look down from Heaven and when he saw man he saw his own GLORY!. GOD saw that the faith of a man was complete and that man had GOD's power, GOD's Glory. Through Christ we all have that same power in us. Many now follow the teachings of Jesus and his deciples and learn the true power of GOD and become powerful loving people. Many have learn the truth about Christ and come to the same conclusion. There are many however who worship a man called Jesus and they never come to know the truth. They live thier lives hating, hating themselves and hating others, condeming what they do not understand, labeling as sin that which they can not gain power over. There are many confussed Christians who worship Jesus and know nothing about CHRIST.

    I do not think you are one of them. I since that you are Truth seeker and truley love GOD. You are only scratching at the surface- keep digging. Reread the new testimonts not for the story of Jesus but for the story of CHRIST.

    When I said that Jesus was the ANti-Christ I meant it. I do not think that everyone that follows Jesus follows Satan. I believe many are finding Christ and seeing a man called Jesus as the living embodiment of the Christ. I also believe that many professed christians have found Jesus, they worship Jesus, they follow mans teachings about Jesus, and they follow Satan to thier own demise.

    Jesus is not GOD. GOD is CHRIST. CHRIST is alive in everyone of us. Through the Christ in all of us we too are god's.

    With Love and Respect to you UD and evryone else that reads this.

    JLOB

  • goofy
    goofy

    I am very interested in learning more about Jesus away from Watchtower teachings, but man, I just can't keep my mind that attentive for such a long post. Please, make little posts and then I will read and think. Goofy

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Gumby and Goofy,

    I understand completely about not wanting to read such a huge post.

    Later today, I will post links where you can see much smaller Threads I have posted about the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Also, here is a small list of very important Scriptures which prove that Jesus Christ deserves to worshiped and prayed to as God Almighty:

    1: Jesus Christ is God Almighty, the Supreme Being [Omnipotent] (John 1:1-3; John 20:28-29; Hebrews 1:6, 1:8, 1:10; Psalm 45:6; Psalm 102:25; Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9)

    2: Jesus Christ is Eternal -- He has always existed and always will exist (Isaiah 9:6; 1st Timothy 6:14-16; Micah 5:2; Revelation 1:17; Revelation 2:8; Revelation 22:13; John 8:58)

    3: Jesus Christ created ALL things for Himself, including angels and humans, and the Heavens and the Earth (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Ephesians 3:9; Hebrews 1:10)

    4: Jesus Christ knows all things and can read human minds and hearts [Omniscient] (Revelation 2:23; John 2:24-25; John 21:17)

    5: Jesus Christ is in more than one place at the same time [Omnipresent] (Matthew 18:20; Matthew 28:20; John 14:18-23; Acts 18:9-10)

    6: Jesus Christ resurrected Himself (John 2:19-22; John 10:17-18)

    7: Jesus Christ is Equal in Nature, Attributes, and Qualities with the Father (Colossians 2:9; Philippians 2:6)

    8: Jesus Christ is prayed to as God (Acts 7:59-60; 1st Corinthians 1:2; 2nd Corinthians 12:8-10; 1st John 5:13-15)

    9: Jesus Christ is worshiped as God (John 5:23; Revelation 5:8-14; Hebrews 1:6)

    10: However, Jesus Christ is NOT The Father (John 14:28; John 14:24)

    11: However, Jesus Christ is NOT The Holy Spirit (John 14:16; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:13-14)

    12: The Father does have a Greater Position over Jesus, because Jesus willingly submits to The Father's final decisions (Philippians 2:6-8; Luke 22:42; John 14:28; 1st Corinthians 11:3; 1st Corinthians 15:24-28)

    I can post any of those Scriptures upon request.

    Thanks for your comments and your interest in reading about Jesus Christ, the Lord of all things!

  • rocketman
    rocketman

    I might be able to comment, but these posts are way long. One quick thought though - all this proves to me is that the Bible can be understood in a variety of ways. In fact, to me, many of its statements seem contradictory. And if they are not, then it seems some verses must be almost disregarded or understood in some other way than what they appear to say on their own.

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Undisfellowshiped,

    just a huge thank, for the excellent research, with all

    the clear and logical quotes. To be kept on the files.

    Just onfurter comment: I would post them, by

    the title/full subjetc that you gave at the beginning

    of each research. I'm sure that it would, on the long

    run, prove an easier for research purpose.

    Thanks again,

    J.C.MacHislopp

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Thanks for all your comments.

    I apologize for the huge size of this Thread -- but that is the main point of this particular Thread -- to put all of my Threads about Jesus together for research purposes.

    I will post links to the smaller individual Threads about Jesus soon.

    JLOB said:

    The Christ raised from the dead and was resurected, I believe that firmly. Once again there is a difference between Christ and Jesus.

    UD,

    I appriciate you completely as well. I believe your heart and faith is in the right place. You are trying to teach the right lessons. We all can benifit from the lessons the real Christ taught us, but I also believe that many will learn to hate and miss the truth through fasly worshipping a man name Jesus.

    Good catch on the Desert conversation between Jesus and Satan. Satan did ask Jesus to worship him. Satan also showed us his plan, he wanted the world to worship Jesus. The Christ would have no part of that.

    Satan's plan was for Jesus Christ to worship Satan. In order to tempt Jesus Christ, Satan offered Jesus all of the kingdoms of the world, IF, and ONLY IF, Jesus Christ would worship Satan.

    We need to look at the context.

    Satan also tempted Jesus Christ by telling Jesus that He should turn the rocks into bread -- was eating bread a sin? No. It would have been a sin because if Jesus had done what Satan told Him to do, then Jesus Christ would have, in essence, been serving Satan!

    In the same way, there most certainly was nothing wrong with people worshiping Jesus Christ -- the thing that was wrong was worshiping Satan!

    JLOB said:

    I believe that there was a man that had the Christ so manisfested in him that he lived a sinless life. I belive that man died and was resureected. I believe that we all have the same Christ within us but are not nearly as faithful as that man was. That man served as a living example that it can be done, we all need to try to follow his lead.

    When the Christ was killed, GOD look down from Heaven and when he saw man he saw his own GLORY!. GOD saw that the faith of a man was complete and that man had GOD's power, GOD's Glory. Through Christ we all have that same power in us. Many now follow the teachings of Jesus and his deciples and learn the true power of GOD and become powerful loving people. Many have learn the truth about Christ and come to the same conclusion. There are many however who worship a man called Jesus and they never come to know the truth. They live thier lives hating, hating themselves and hating others, condeming what they do not understand, labeling as sin that which they can not gain power over. There are many confussed Christians who worship Jesus and know nothing about CHRIST.
    I do not think you are one of them. I since that you are Truth seeker and truley love GOD. You are only scratching at the surface- keep digging. Reread the new testimonts not for the story of Jesus but for the story of CHRIST.

    Thanks for your comments.

    There are some major problems I have with what you said.

    First of all, if Jesus is not The Christ, then we all need to throw away the entire New Testament, because it is all full of lies!

    Matthew 1:1: The Book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham.

    Matthew 1:18: Now the birth of Jesus Christ was like this; for after His mother, Mary, was engaged to Joseph, before they came together, she was found pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

    Matthew 2:4: Gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he asked them where the Christ would be born.

    Matthew 16:13: Now when Jesus came into the parts of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
    Matthew 16:14: They said, "Some say John the Baptizer, some, Elijah, and others, Jeremiah, or one of the Prophets."
    Matthew 16:15: He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
    Matthew 16:16: Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."
    Matthew 16:17: Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in Heaven.

    Matthew 16:20: Then He [Jesus] charged the disciples that they should tell no one that He is Jesus the Christ.

    Matthew 24:4: Jesus answered them, "Be careful that no one leads you astray.
    Matthew 24:5: For many will come in My Name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will lead many astray.

    Mark 1:1: The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

    Mark 8:27: Jesus went out, with His disciples, into the villages of Caesarea Philippi. On the way He asked His disciples, "Who do men say that I am?"
    Mark 8:28: They told Him, "John the Baptizer, and others say Elijah, but others: one of the Prophets."
    Mark 8:29: He [Jesus] said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Peter answered, "You are the Christ."
    Mark 8:30: He charged them that they should tell no one about Him.

    Mark 14:61: But He stayed quiet, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"
    Mark 14:62: Jesus said, "I AM. You will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of the sky."

    Luke 2:11: For there is born to you, this day, in the city of David, a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

    Luke 2:26: It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he should not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
    Luke 2:27: He came in the Spirit into the Temple. When the parents brought in the Child, Jesus, that they might do concerning Him according to the custom of the Law,
    Luke 2:28: then he received Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said,
    Luke 2:29: "Now You are releasing Your servant, Master, According to Your Word, in peace;
    Luke 2:30: For my eyes have seen Your Salvation,
    Luke 2:31: Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples;
    Luke 2:32: A Light for revelation to the Gentiles, And the Glory of Your people Israel."

    Luke 4:41: Demons also came out from many, crying out, and saying, "You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Rebuking them, He [Jesus] didn't allow them to speak, because they knew that He was the Christ.

    Luke 9:20: He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Peter answered, "The Christ of God."

    John 1:41: He first found his own brother, Simon, and said to him, "We have found the Messiah!" (which is, being interpreted, Christ).
    John 1:42: He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, "You are Simon the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas" (which is by interpretation, Peter).

    John 4:25: The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah comes," (He who is called Christ). "When He has come, He will declare to us all things."
    John 4:26: Jesus said to her, "I am He, the One who speaks to you."

    John 4:42: They said to the woman, "Now we believe, not because of your speaking; for we have heard for ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world."

    John 6:68: Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom would we go? You have the Words of eternal life.
    John 6:69: We have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

    John 11:27: She said to Him, "Yes, Lord. I have come to believe that You are the Christ, God's Son, He who comes into the world."

    John 20:31: but these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His Name.

    So, if Jesus is not The Christ, the entire New Testament is a lie!

    I'm going to go with the New Testament.

    I don't know where you have come up with your beliefs, but it cannot be the New Testament.

    JLOB said:

    When I said that Jesus was the ANti-Christ I meant it. I do not think that everyone that follows Jesus follows Satan. I believe many are finding Christ and seeing a man called Jesus as the living embodiment of the Christ. I also believe that many professed christians have found Jesus, they worship Jesus, they follow mans teachings about Jesus, and they follow Satan to thier own demise.

    Jesus is not GOD. GOD is CHRIST. CHRIST is alive in everyone of us. Through the Christ in all of us we too are god's.

    With Love and Respect to you UD and evryone else that reads this.

    Please let me know who and where you got all of this information from, because it is not from the Bible.

    The statement "We are all gods" is the original lie that Satan told Eve -- "Eat this fruit and you will become just like God".

    From what I gather, you also reject and deny the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

    The Bible makes it clear that if you do not believe in the Sacrifice of Jesus The Christ, "you will die in your sins".

    John 8:24:

    I [Jesus] said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."

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