Proof that the lingiusts are lying about words used in the bible IE: Shaddai, Angels, Elohim, Yhwh?

by Crazyguy 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Vidiot

  sparrowdown - "Those cunning linguists."

  We are awesome, aren't we?
• 

  Phizzy

  This Thread reminds me of when I was talking to a M.S not long before I left, he was talking about getting old, and I said :

  " Yea, I have got to the age where I would rather read a Glossy Magazine featuring Cunning Stunts....".

  I got a stern, straight look.

  I don't think he could quite believe I had just made that Pun, but did not know how to reply, without giving himself away.
• 

  Actigall Ur

  I wouldn't exactly call this proof but you are on the right track. I did similar research years ago when I was still a Borg and was amazed to discover those ancient Mesopotamians wrote the "bible" long before the "bible" was ever dreamed up! Ever hear of the "Code of Hammurabi?"

  Does this sound similar to something you have been reading as "god's word?"

  Slander

  Ex. Law #127: "If any one "point the finger" at a sister of a god or the wife of any one, and can not prove it, this man shall be taken before the judges and his brow shall be marked. (by cutting the skin, or perhaps hair.)" [21]

  Trade

  Ex. Law #265: "If a herdsman, to whose care cattle or sheep have been entrusted, be guilty of fraud and make false returns of the natural increase, or sell them for money, then shall he be convicted and pay the owner ten times the loss." [21]

  Slavery

  Ex. Law #15: "If any one take a male or female slave of the court, or a male or female slave of a freed man, outside the city gates, he shall be put to death." [21]

  The duties of workers

  Ex. Law #42: "If any one take over a field to till it, and obtain no harvest therefrom, it must be proved that he did no work on the field, and he must deliver grain, just as his neighbor raised, to the owner of the field." [21]

  Theft

  Ex. Law #22: "If any one is committing a robbery and is caught, then he shall be put to death."[21]

  Food

  Ex. Law #104: "If a merchant give an agent corn, wool, oil, or any other goods to transport, the agent shall give a receipt for the amount, and compensate the merchant therefor. Then he shall obtain a receipt from the merchant for the money that he gives the merchant." [21]

  Liability

  Ex. Law #53: "If any one be too lazy to keep his dam in proper condition, and does not so keep it; if then the dam break and all the fields be flooded, then shall he in whose dam the break occurred be sold for money, and the money shall replace the corn which he has caused to be ruined." [21]

  Divorce

  Ex. Law #142: "If a woman quarrel with her husband, and say: "You are not congenial to me," the reasons for her prejudice must be presented. If she is guiltless, and there is no fault on her part, but he leaves and neglects her, then no guilt attaches to this woman, she shall take her dowry and go back to her father's house."[21]

  Ex. Law #196: "If a man destroy the eye of another man, they shall destroy his eye. If one break a man's bone, they shall break his bone. If one destroy the eye of a freeman or break the bone of a freeman he shall pay one gold mina. If one destroy the eye of a man's slave or break a bone of a man's slave he shall pay one-half his price."
• 

  Crazyguy

  Youll notice that i put a question mark after my statment so i was not implying as a proof of fact.

  Another word that the meaning may have been changed and i should have added to my original post is the word Amen. The word is also a name for an Egyptian god , sometimes spelled that way sometimes spelled Amun. There are several places in the bible where this word is used and it makes more sense used as the name of this god rather then used to mean , so be it, or some of the other meanings we are led to believe its means in Hebrew. One good example is at Rev.3:14 "the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the originator of gods creation says,
• 

  fulltimestudent

  Crazyguy : Another word that the meaning may have been changed and i should have added to my original post is the word Amen. The word is also a name for an Egyptian god , sometimes spelled that way sometimes spelled Amun.

  That notion has also been around a while. But its dangerous to associate ideas because of some similarity in the word. There's only a certain amount of sounds that humans can produce, so sounds (and, combinations of sounds) will have different meanings in different languages
  

  I've got a lot to get through today, so I'll just use Wikipedia as a reference (as its easily accessible, in spite of some associated problems).

  On the topic of Amun, the author of that topic notes: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amun )

  The name Amun (written imn, pronounced Amana in ancient Egyptian [5]) meant something like "the hidden one" or "invisible".[6] It was thought that Amun created himself and then his surroundings.[7]

  
  

  Wikipedia in the entry for the word 'Amen,' says:

  Etymology

  Grammarians frequently list ʾāmán under its three consonants (aleph-mem-nun), which are identical to those of ʾāmēn (note that the Hebrew letter א aleph represents a glottal stop sound, which functions as a consonant in the morphology of hebrew).[9] This triliteralroot means to be firm, confirmed, reliable, faithful, have faith, believe.

  The usage of Amen, meaning "so be it", as found in the early scriptures of the Bible is said to be of Hebrew origin;[6][7] however, the basic triconsonantal root from which the word was derived is common to a number of languages, such as Aramaic, in the Semitic branch of the Afrasian languages. The word was imported into the Greek of the early Church from Judaism.[1][8] From Greek, amen entered the other Western languages. ...

  In Arabic, the word is derived from its triliteral common root word ʾĀmana (Arabic: آمن‎), which has the same meanings as the Hebrew root word.

  Popular among some theosophists,[11] proponents of Afrocentric theories of history,[12] and adherents of esoteric Christianity [13][14] is the conjecture that amen is a derivative of the name of the Egyptian god Amun (which is sometimes also spelled Amen). Some adherents of Eastern religions believe thatamen shares roots with the Hindu Sanskrit word, Aum.[15][16][17][18] Such external etymologies are not included in standard etymological reference works. The Hebrew word, as noted above, starts with aleph, while the Egyptian name begins with a yodh.[19]

  
  

  ---------------------------

  Crazyguy :
  This understanding goes hand in hand with what was found at Ugarit, that El was the most high god, created offspring other gods some of which resided on the mountains. These gods were referred to as Elohim and when we see the word angels in the old testament this is also incorrect these are in fact also the gods, not lowly flying messengers with wings. Then last but not least YHWH the sign we have always been told was a symbol for the name of the one true god could be in fact stand for a, family of Gods.

  I think its easiest to say that there are different interpretations as to how YHWH came to occuppy the chief place in the thinking of the early Hebrews.

  What is clear however, is that those early Hebrews (whoever they may have been ethnically) did not see the unseen (and imagined ) heavens, the way modern Jews do.

  The evidence points to many gods in their belief system. You may enjoy (if you can access a library that has a copy) Page DuBois' book, "A Million and One Gods: The Persistence of Polytheism" (published by Harvard University Press in 2014.) Its not a long book and covers more than just the biblical area.

  And thanks for publishing the Book of Balaam.
• 

  Diogenesister

  Crazyguy may I ask what you study please? And you also full-time student?

  Fascinating stuff. I was always given to understand Shaddai meant mountains, so rarther than the plural Elhoim representing a single god of majesty, a kind of "royal we", it actually may simply mean GODS (of the mountains). Occam's razor and all that! I also read somewhere that yahweh maybe Baal, the son of el, and the host of heaven referring to the many gods of heaven...not as in god and his angels. Does anyone have anymore info..I will definitely look into the book full-time student mentions.
• 

  fulltimestudent

  Diogenesister :
  Crazyguy may I ask what you study please? And you also full-time student?

  Sure! I've been taking a B.Arts (major in Ancient History) at Sydney's Macquarie Uni. I (mainly) wanted to learn more about China, as I thought the major events of the 19th and 20th centuries were the 19th C. collapse of the Qing (Manchu) Empire and the 20th C. re-organisation of China, but I soon saw that one could not study China in isolation, but that you had to see China in its Asian context..

  Macquarie does not have a very strong Asian Studies program (it was not my first choice of a uni, but my first choice did not offer me a place) MU turned out to be good though, as its has a really good Ancient History Department that has some good study Units on west Asia and the Silk Road trade complex, as well as Chinese Ancient History. There's also a good Society for the study of Early Christianity (and a nascent society for the study of Asian Historical Research, the web page for which, I've become editor.

  So in the end, (with a little twisting - I found a way to be able to take study units at Sydney Uni, which is in the process of building a world class China Studies Centre - it already has 200 academics associated) I've been able to cover some wonderful areas of human history. I was going to graduate at the end of last year ( I needed 68 credit points to graduate and have near 80) but the Uni management informed me that I've not covered 2 general units that they consider essential - so I have to cover them this year.

  For anyone living in Australia, I recommend attending a Uni. Under the deferred cost scheme it does not cost you much except time, and you only start to pay off the cost when your income reaches around $50,000.

  --------

  Diogenesister : I also read somewhere that yahweh maybe Baal, the son of el, and the host of heaven referring to the many gods of heaven...not as in god and his angels. Does anyone have anymore info..I will definitely look into the book full-time student mentions.

  Its the contention of a lot of scholars that in early Hebrew theology, Baal transformed into YHWH. Boyarin, whose commentary on Dan 7 (See his 'The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Gospels,' pp 43-52 for a brief review ) I've mentioned before believes it to have influenced the acceptance by some Jews, of the divinity of Jesus.

  The thought that the ancient secondary Gods were transformed into angels in later theology is quite commonly accepted. The idea is often referred to as angelology.