Was Jesus the SON......or.....the SUN?

by gumby 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Brummie

  • The sun is the 'Light of the World'. • The sun 'cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him.' • The sun rising in the morning is the 'Savior of mankind.' • The sun wears a corona, a 'crown of thorns' or halo. • The sun 'walks on water.' • yada yada

  Amazing, the will & purpose of God is seen in the whole of his creation, even the sun and stars pointed to the messiah before the creation and fall of man. Isnt there a Scripture that talks about God forknowing and the messiah being chosen long before the very creation?

  Brummie (edited to say this is purposely a bad response)
• 

  gumby

  Isnt there a Scripture that talks about God forknowing and the messiah being chosen long before the very creation

  Yes there is sadly.......as this idea makes the bible look even more foolish.

  This idea teaches us that since the "messiah" (savior) was picked before the founding of the world...........God KNEW man would fail......yet he continued on with his creation and uttered the words...."let us make man"

  If that were not bad enough he played head games with Adam and Eve and made fools of them. He tells them both not to eat of the tree..........and the entire time that conversation went on......he KNEW they would fail. He must have also KNEW Satan would turn on him also.

  I guess my point is........the Bible god is a prick!

  For any god to foreknow that what he would create would go throgh thousands of years of untold misery makes me want to puke......I'm sorry
• 

  Brummie

  Gumby I hear ya but my thoughts on this:

  This idea teaches us that since the "messiah" (savior) was picked before the founding of the world...........God KNEW man would fail......yet he continued on with his creation and uttered the words...."let us make man"

  ..Is that having foreknowledge wouldnt have prevented my from going ahead with my procreation, I have 2 sons now but I could have easily not had any knowing full well that they will get into trouble or fall etc. Knowing the outcome shouldnt stop us from going ahead with our desire, at the end of the day, whatever happens to my sons will be down to free choice on their part, we brought them into this world, and gave them the chance. Hence why should God not go ahead with his creation regardless of the outcome, he will still have given the many chance to live.

  Brummie
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  bebu

  CS Lewis wrote about the similarities of Christianity and pagan gods. You can read a very good essay on it here-- (Hope that link works; if not, cut and paste. Then click on "CS Lewis The Grand Miracle".)

  http://mypage.direct.ca/j/jlove/tchissues/tch0398.htm

  BTW, in his book Miracles he expands on this even further, and its good reading for those who wonder if any similarities are evidence of "problems".

  bebu :)
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  sf

  "Kennedy had two eyes....just like lincoln, we also find he had two ears....just like lincoln, both men had penises too. Re-search tells us they both wore shoes and it also been said they both wore socks! If your trying to compare Jesus and the motifs before him, to Lincoln and Kennedy....then your not being fair........." ROFLOL!! Yet, are you sure only one dick each? I hear-tell they each had two heads. I could be wrong. sKally
• 

  gumby

  having foreknowledge wouldnt have prevented my from going ahead with my procreation, I have 2 sons now but I could have easily not had any knowing full well that they will get into trouble or fall etc.

  Not a good comparison Brummie.

  Let's say your two boys were going to fit the description of the little children who slowly starve to death. Would you have had your boys then?

  What if you knew your boys were going to be tortured or murdered......would you have had them?

  God supposedly knew ahead of time every single bit of pain that would be experienced by every individual .

  Your saying you knew ahead of time your boys would get into trouble and that didn't stop you from having them is in no way a comparison of what god knew what would happen to his creation.

  Gumby
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  Brummie

  Thats a good response gumby, I have to admit I usually have to put my thinking head on to debate these things and even then I am aware that my logic is often faulty as you have demonstrated.

  My main problem with the view that God set us up to fail in the Garden of eden is that the view is based upon the belief that we will all be judged because of Adams sin, and that isnt fair becaue it isnt our fault that Adam sinned, yet in my view its not Adams fault or Gods fault when we do something wrong or vile. According to the Christian viewpoint each man will stand before God to give a personal account of his actions. So while it is true that Adam did sin and we inherited the sin nature this does not mean that we were set up to sin in the vile way that people sin against others. We are each accountable and will be judged according to our own actions, it wasnt adams fault therefore God did not set us up to fail in the Garden of eden and God wont judge us on the grounds of what Adam did, it is not Adams fault when a vile person commits a crime against a child or an adult, we do not inherit a murderous nature when we inherit the sin nature.

  Thats part of the Christian view as I see it.
• 

  gumby

  Thanks for your humble honesty Brummie.

  I personally have a problem with the bible as a whole as you already know. It is nice to discuss these things from a biblical perspective sometimes for the benifit of others however. I usually speak negativity about the bible but it is fun to use when disproving a dub and sometimes a even a fundie.

  I feel there is much good taught in the bible but all these good things are also taugh in many other cultures and faiths. Along with these "good things" though there is usually the fiction mixed in as well.

  The Adam and eve story is another one of those tales in my book. I believed it for all my life untill about a year or two ago when I checked it out.......just like I checked out the dubs 7 or 8 years prior to that and left.

  Take care

  Gumby
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  Brummie

  Thanks for your humble honesty

  Lol, now there is something that I seldom practice, but when you have been a JW and believed something so strongly and then realised it was all wrong, its a humbling expereince, you have to be humble from then on when it comes to belief dont cha.

  The Adam and eve story is another one of those tales in my book. I believed it for all my life untill about a year or two ago when I checked it out

  I just havent got to that stage yet, any evidence I have seen just hasnt convinced me enough to throw the towel in. But in saying that, I havent seen a great deal of evidence, especially convincing or consistent honest evidence.

  I'm open to debate and have an open mind.

  Brummie
• 

  gumby

  I'm open to debate and have an open mind.

  Big hugs for you brummie. I wished all here felt that way. That's how I have been since leaving the dubs. Why believe a lie again? Many block things from their minds as far as reality goes because of fear of what they might learn........life is OK for them and they are good with that.

  Many times peoples faiths are like the mother who turned a deaf ear to her daughter accusing daddy of bad things. They don't WANT to think about it or discuss it because they can't deal with that.......'sweep it under the rug'.

  I was a never doubted the bible as Gods word until I heard information I had never heard before about it. When I learned what was said.....I checked it out. I read and read and searched. I still do.

  It hurt me bad to find out what I did for a while and had my head spinning.It takes time to decide which path to follow upon exiting dubdom. ..........unless your not careful.

  Gumby