Newbie question about the NGO story

by gcc2k 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Xander
    Xander

    I think we see where you are going, gcc.

    The problem is, for someone really 'in' - nothing you can say or show them will make them question their beliefs. As noted above, the UN-NGO thing really is that black and white. The WTBTS didn't list any possible excuse exceptions when it damned ALL religions as false for associating with the UN as NGOs, yet it later does the same thing. You can look for reasons, look for benefits, etc, but it won't change the fundamental truth that those who 'stick to their guns' by the WTBTS can find reason to justify anything.

    I mean, you only have to think about Noah's ark for a moment. Given that only 2 of most animals were brought on (more of the other, okay-to-be-sacrificed animals), how long, exactly, would you expect the pairs of all the carnivores to be able to survive? 40 days and nights without eating? Oh, I don't THINK so....

  • gcc2k
    gcc2k

    None of the bigwigs want to jump into my thread? Am I unworthy?

  • berylblue
    berylblue
    None of the bigwigs want to jump into my thread? Am I unworthy?

    Interesting. Who are the "big wigs" here? Not being nasty, just curious as to what your perception is. I don't really keep track myself. Beryl and WELCOME!

  • No Apologies
    No Apologies

    I am no bigwig, but I will chime in anyway.

    GCC, what others have said is true, all the evidence in the world will not sway someone who wants to believe they have the true religion. You could have Koffi Annan come to their house with the documentation in hand, it would make no difference. They will believe what they want to believe. Logic and reason will not sway them.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Gcc, I think that Freewilly's assessment is on the money. Here's what I think happened:

    In 1990 the Society's Writing Dept. learned that it could easily get specialized information through the U.N. and that it was easier to get this information if it had a regular U.N. library card so as to have access to the library without going through the non-member access rigamarole. I believe that the editor of Awake!, Harry Peloyan, and a Writing Dept. researcher, Ciro Aulicino, worked together to get the library card. Aulicino, you may know, is listed on the 1992 U.N. NGO application document as the Watchtower Society contact. Peloyan is too slick to leave such a paper trail, but I believe that he was the mover behind getting the card. Once they found out about NGO's, they found that it was fairly easy for the Watchtower Society to become an associated NGO, and so they worked to convince the Governing Body (or at least, GB member Lloyd Barry) to allow them to join. Barry was listed on the NGO application as the corporate director authorizing the membership. Shortly after the Society quit its associated status, I called both Aulicino and Peloyan to see if they had anything to say about it. Aulicino simply hung up the phone after saying, "I won't talk to you!" Peloyan became angry and so flustered that he could hardly speak. He said that "you apostates" (he had no idea who I was so this was an unwarranted assumption) were "making a mountain out of a molehill" because all that they had in mind was getting a library card. After a few more seconds of virtually incoherent ranting, Peloyan hung up without waiting for a reply from me. I think that it may have been true at the very beginning of the idea, just to get a library card, but that once the political advantages of being an associated NGO became clear, the Society used this to its political advantage in the area of human rights, and in other areas.

    That the Society knew early on what political advantages could come from being an associated NGO is shown by an Awake! article (Sept. 8, 1991?) that, for the first time in WTS history, seemed to praise the U.N. for many humanitarian activities. The last few paragraphs of the article, however, contained JW code-speak that informed the JW community that the article was actually tongue-in-cheek for unspecified reasons. A non-JW would not get the implications of the code-speak, but would interpret it as high praise of the U.N. and its goals. Over the years, more Awake! articles (and at least one Watchtower article) followed, which praised the U.N. or some of its activities. In 1992, with the 1991 Awake! article as "proof" of its attitude toward the U.N., the Society received its "associated" NGO status.

    The Society took advantage of its new political clout, via its associated NGO status, many times during the next decade. Often Watchtower spokesmen appeared before the European Human Rights Commission, and agents of various political bodies such as the Swedish government and various U.S. congressional committees, and so forth. You can find details in various online writeups such as the one done by Randy Watters.

    One might object to the claim that the Society involved itself in politics by becoming an associated NGO and by lobbying various political bodies. One might claim that all they were doing was working for human rights. (Of course, they only work for human rights when these are to the Society's advantage, but certainly not for the human rights of individual JWs.) But consider this: Martin Luther King worked for human rights for blacks in America, and worked to influence various American institutions to uphold constitutional guarantees. Would anyone dare to argue that King's actions were not entirely political in nature? I think not. Lobbying politicians for human rights, or for anything else, is by definition political activity. So the Society not only violated its longstanding claims about avoiding getting involved specifically with the U.N., but meddled in politics.

    A good bit of evidence that Watchtower leaders knew perfectly well that their associated NGO status was grossly hypocritical is that they kept it secret from almost everyone else in Bethel, except from those who needed to know in order to do their assigned jobs. I know this for a fact because not long after the NGO story broke, I called a number of Watchtower officials, including men in the Legal, Writing and Public Affairs departments, and asked them for comments. Most of them had no idea what I was talking about. Later, after the Society withdrew from the U.N. and issued its misleading justifications, I followed up on a few of these and the reaction generally was one of embarassment followed by a justification along the lines of, "Well, Jehovah directs the Governing Body and so I won't second guess them."

    The most telling proof that Watchtower leaders knew they were practicing gross hypocrisy is that within a few weeks of the public exposure of their involvment with the U.N., Watchtower corporate directors withdrew their membership. If they had nothing to hide, if they were convinced they were doing nothing wrong, then they would not have withdrawn. They would simply have affirmed their reasons having to do with a library card, issued letters to inquirers explaining and justifying their stance, and that would have been that. But they knew that only the JW community would buy that excuse, and so to prevent continuing criticism by "apostates" and secular and religious journalists, they withdrew.

    AlanF

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello gcc2k,

    I've read with interest all your post on this subject and also all the

    answer and explanation given to you by many, in this Board.

    As you probably know I was among those who started the

    all affair and researches on the United Nations, NGO status

    and the WTBS Inc....association.

    I will not go back to the many questions, documentation etc.etc.

    which have been posted and even verified by you.

    Please allow me to confirm the factual, logical and true

    conclusion given to this matter by our friend Alan F.:

    "The most telling proof that Watchtower leaders knew they were practicing gross hypocrisy is that within a few weeks of the public exposure of their involvment with the U.N., Watchtower corporate directors withdrew their membership. If they had nothing to hide, if they were convinced they were doing nothing wrong, then they would not have withdrawn.

    They would simply have affirmed their reasons having to do with a library card, issued letters to inquirers explaining and justifying their stance, and that would have been that. But they knew that only the JW community would buy that excuse, and so to prevent continuing criticism by "apostates" and secular and religious journalists, they withdrew."

    You have , in just a few lines the essence of the matter.

    I'm sure that you'll get the sense of it.

    Greetings, James Charles MacHislopp

    P.S. Alan, thanks for the 'epitome'!

  • Francois
    Francois
    gcc2k

    Have you read Ray Franz' book "Crisis of Conscience"? If you haven't, you should.

    But there is one thing that might make it tough for you. There are pages and pages and pages of evidence in his book, copies of letters written by the society on the society's letterhead. How would you ever prove to yourself that the society did indeed author all those letters? You don't think the society is going to 'fess up to them do you? So where does that leave you? You must be able to make intuitive leaps in order to investigate matters where the actual physical evidence is not avaiable to you.

    My mother, upon reading CofC said that Ray could have stolen that letterhead and written anything he wanted. The length that people will go to in pumping sunshine up their own skirts is truly amazing, isn't it? What will you do?

    francois

  • gcc2k
    gcc2k

    Thank you for the replies.

    By "bigwigs" I was referring to those who have brought these matters to our attention, spearhead attention towards these various issues, etc. I haven't been on this site long enough to know who is who, but I was thinking of Randy and others.

    I understand Alan's analysis. I'm not sure I agree that this was all to get a library card. Again, the Society would not take the risk of damning other religions for being NGOs when they themselves enjoyed the same status, unless as you suggest this was something that no one knew.

    Also, I disagree that disassociating themselves is any indication of guilt. It would be more problematic for them to remain members and meet conditions they could not agree to, as they said in their letter. I do think that they probably pulled out before the UN could terminate their status, since, as we know, the WT has never exactly been a UN advocate.

    Would being an NGO have helped with trying to gain approval in Russia, Bulgaria or other countries? I could see them taking some risks there, but not just to get a library card.

    I have half a mind to write the Society and ask what the deal is.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Gcc2k said:

    : I understand Alan's analysis. I'm not sure I agree that this was all to get a library card. Again, the Society would not take the risk of damning other religions for being NGOs when they themselves enjoyed the same status, unless as you suggest this was something that no one knew.

    Precisely the point.

    : Also, I disagree that disassociating themselves is any indication of guilt.

    Why? Until then, hardly anyone, except a small number of people in Bethel and at the U.N., knew of the Society's involvement. As soon as it became public, they withdrew. Furthermore, the U.N. staffers who approved of the Watchtower Society's application did not even know that Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses are the same organization. If they had known, they would not have approved of a cult like the JWs joining.

    : It would be more problematic for them to remain members and meet conditions they could not agree to, as they said in their letter.

    But what they claimed in their letter was a lie. The U.N.'s requirements were clear in 1991 when the Society first applied, and they did not change after that. Members have always been required to uphold the U.N.'s goals and promote its agendas. Examine the full set of documents for yourself and confirm this.

    : I do think that they probably pulled out before the UN could terminate their status, since, as we know, the WT has never exactly been a UN advocate.

    I'm sure that figured in, as well. No sense getting kicked out when you can leave voluntarily.

    : Would being an NGO have helped with trying to gain approval in Russia, Bulgaria or other countries?

    Probably. They were playing politics in other countries. Why not these?

    : I could see them taking some risks there, but not just to get a library card.

    Precisely why I don't buy their "library card" excuse.

    : I have half a mind to write the Society and ask what the deal is.

    By all means, do! But be forewarned: you'll almost certainly face judicial action.

    If you write, make sure you include the documents that show what the 1991 membership requirements were. Ask how their letter of excuse jibes with that.

    AlanF

  • MacHislopp

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