White man`s religion
You had quoted;
At the risk of generalizing too much, I find "white people" will think more with logic. Other cultures and races often more with their hearts and emotions. The religion plays upon the emotions and it will be those who don't ever stop and THINK LOGICALLY and ask themselves DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? that remain.
I'm not so sure whites tend to think more logically than non-whites. Now, before I say anything else, No, I'm NOT a bleeding heart liberal. At least, I don't think I am. ??????? What you see as non-whites thinking more with their emotions I would describe as a fresh kill in the plains of Africa. To explain; whites could be characterized as being a lion or other top animal on the food chain. They usually have the first choice at education, marriage mates, business oppertunity, religious beliefs, and so on. Because they are on top socially, economically, and politically they can choose what religions suit their fancy and what religions don't. They don't have to embrace a religion they don't like. By the way, are not the majority of JW's white, or were for a long time? Has this not been the case for the Mormons, or the Adventist or others? It seemed that the emotions and feelings of whites dominated their descision to join these religions and not their "logical" mind telling them something was not right. Anyway, whites then could be seen as having first shot at the kill and eating to their fill, metaphorically speaking.
Non-whites would be lower on that socio-economic-political food chain. They might be seen as the scavengers who have to wait for the lions to take their fill. They have to accept what is left over and fight with each other to get what they need. I think this is where you are thinking, (no offense ment), that non-whites are thinking with thier emotions. They just don't have the same options to choose what is best for them as whites do, so it seems they make worst choices, or "emotional" choices.
I'm in no way saying I have an accurate perception of the demmographics involved. I'm just giving my oppinion based on my lifes experiencess. Also, I'm not saying there is no validity to your perceptions and appologise if I have offended you. I just had a different way of looking at the same thing.
If you think that JW's is a white man religion? Then you are wrong! Jehovah's Witnesses can be found in 235 lands. Where is the Witnesses in China? They are doing good.
Can someone please tell me how many "lands" there are?
It's pretty much common knowledge that the Organization divides up the world in the oddest ways. Alaska, for example, is counted as its own "land," and not the state that it is. And so on. I imagine there must be thousands of "lands" if we're going to count them this way.
Does anyone have a real answer to this?
"Whites tend to think more logically than non-whites"
Sounds like a very logical racist statement too me.
Hey did a red ,yellow, black, or white person say this?
Never mind I'll just use my own logic to figure it out.
"Whites tend to think more logically than non-whites"
I know this poster well and he is Canadian. He gets quite put out with us from the usa (would call us americans - but then that suggests that Canadians are not of North America) because we tend to be perceived as thinking we're number one in most things.
I live in the south usa - and racism exists. He marvels at this because in Canada racism is not near the problem as in the usa in his opinion.
I have been to white congregations and to black congregations (with appropriate token black/whites in each). Black congregations tend to be much more outgoing, easy going, friendly, etc. I believe it has nothing to do with the jw part - but has to do with the way they perceive families, friends, community. Whites tend to be stand-offish, and not willing to be emotional (even in a friendly way.)
The poster you quoted may not care for the way usa citizens express themselves - but he's not a racist, imho. He just thinks Canadians are pretty damned cool.
to say that white people think more logically than ppl of other races and ethnic groups, just makes me think that this dude Pathofthorns needs to get out more. I mean for most of their history until very recently most JW's were of a European descent, and history is full of "white" ppl getting all riled up and emotional and doing some seriuos damage i.e. crusades, holocaust etc.... I feel the main reasons ppl in third world countries latch on to religions is because it gives them a boost in their dreary lives. i mean take any one of us well off first-worlders and put us in one of those poor disease infested countries and our whole outlook on life will probably change.
When you are poor and starving often times you look for something else to help you cope with your problems. Being poor humbles a person because then you realize just how vunerable you are to things like sickness, hunger, etc...
Here in Western Civilization we have many recourses to sickness, hunger and things like it. Even the poor amongst us do too. But when you don't have any other recourse, whom do you look to?
[i]"..... anyone who ignores everyday reality in order to live up to an ideal will soon discover he had been taught how to destroy himself, not how to preserve himself." The Prince. Niccolo Machiavelli[i/]
I think the Pentecostal's popularity prove that emotionalism appeals to all types of people. As I tell the blacks and whites (and others) that I deal with, there are far more differences between job categories than races. The I.Q. spread between engineers and day laborers is far greater than that between whites and blacks (or any other groups I am aware of.) The same crimes whether of passion or greed are common to all groups, they have all needed punishments for the same things. As for the Jehovah's Witnesses being a "white religion" I disagree. It is a poor person's religion. With it, even the poor and down trodden can have what the rich can't, eternal life later and the "inside track" now. "Only WE know the TRUTH and everybody else is gonna pay!" Lots of religions and cults do this. The fact that the old bozo's that started this religion were white no more define it as white than the founders of communism made it "white." There are true friends and faithful spouses as well as bullies and harlots in all human groups. As for Canadians being free from racism, that too is just another generalization. Ask the Native Americans. Check the percentages in the prisons. From Africa to Europe there are minorities on the bottom of the totem poles. Frequently persecuted or downtrodden minorities who often live up to the roles assigned them. Self-fulfilling prophecies, I think they used to be referred to??? From Bill Clinton to Prince Charles, from Hirohito to Big Daddy Amin, from Germany to the killing fields of Cambodia, there's not that much difference between races and nationalities, but a great deal between individuals. As for the Witnesses, they are just another cult, and I do mean CULT. Not the first to ruin lives, and I am sorry to say not the only or the last. Don't judge me by my race or my nationality, judge me by my actions and my attitudes. I oppose racists of any color, I oppose cults regardless of name, size or place of national origin.
Waiting-racism-a thought[is not that what your friend posted]
or belief that one race is better than another race.
This quote was not about countries it was an across the
broad statement about ' whites and non-whites'.
Now I do not know if your friend is racist or not. I'm sure
not the one to judge only the Lord can do that. But do
me a favor every time you meet a non-white ask them
if they think that WHITES are more logical than they are
simply because there white? Let me know how you
Prejudice-is the single most dividing issue in humanity.
It could be over color-religion-ideaology-thats what all the
fighting is about-it needs to stop.We all can lend a hand
by making a lot less LOGICAL statements.
Peace and Love
I`m sorry that this thread shifted courses and turned into a discussion on race. I guess I set myself up for it with the title I
threw on it. By the way, I`m white, my wife is Japanese (Okinawan
to be specific) and obviously our three children are mixed race
Asian/Americans. With CNN report that many major US cities now have
have less than half white populations,I`m slipping into the minority
and the rest of my family is gaining ground,so to speak. At any rate,
my original point wasn`t intended to be a discussion about race, rather the dynamics behind WT growth. One person posted something
about the WT being in 235 lands. I`d suggest he break out his calculater and see what the proportion of JWs is to the non-western
world. He would no doubt discover that in non-western lands, with
the possible exception of Japan, the number of JWs is relatively
small. As to why the WT had success here in Japan, there are a number
of factors. First of all the `American issue`comes into play. Japanese
like American `things`(Starbucks just opened their 200th shop here
in only a few years). Then there is the Sunday School issue.Meaning
after WWII many Christian churches put a great emphasis on Sunday
School.Kids who had good memories of Sun.School were later contacted
by JWs going door-to-door and thinking it to be another Christian
denomination started studying.Another factor is the breakdown in
families. Husbands gone from home and lonely wives looking for a
friend. They hooked up with the local pioneer who visited and be-friended them. (If you go to any KH here in Japan, you will find an
overwhelmingly high % of women. Also a high divorce rate). Despite
the rapid growth, the WT here is now in rapid decline. The general
population has a very negative image of JWs.JWs are considered to
be `narrow-minded homewreckers` .Too bad about the poor image.
Anyway, as far as Japan is concerned, if the WT came from any other
country than America, it wouldn`t have gotten this far here. JWD
I`m sorry that this thread shifted courses and turned into a discussion on race.
I agree. I don't think the rise, and the ultimate fall of the WTBTS depends less upon race as more upon nationalities. I think as the other nations rise to the perceived status of usa (and it is perceived, not a hard reality imho), the persons in the WTBTS will begin to look around more - and realize that their little fundy religion ain't much different than 1,000's of others.
In our area, we're 70/30% black/white in KH, as is our communities in general, and not much growth. The Spanish congregations are growing tremendously. A lot tend to be migrant workers, construction workers, etc. I believe as they become more educated and have access to computers/schooling/reading, their growth will slow down.
I believe Path could have worded his post better, but he's still not a racist. I live among them - and the man wouldn't pass for one down here.
>>I was in the Philippines some time ago. The big religion there is a
>>group called `Iglesia Ni Cristo`(Literally Church of Christ) … IT`S
>>EVERYWHERE … that group`s teachings share many of the
>>distinctives of the WT teachings … For the most part, however, it has
>>remained a local religion. On the other hand the Watchtower has
>>reached around the world. Why the difference?
I somewhat agree with your thesis, that part of the explanation of the
Watchtower's worldwide acceptance is due to its origin in the US.
However, I think that is only part of the reason for its popularity. As
you know, the religion's growth began in the early 1900s when the
allure of Western culture wasn't nearly what it is now. Imo, the appeal
of the Bible Student's religion can be traced to something of a similar
sort that was common within Jewish culture -- they tended to keep a
written record of everything and carefully revised it. Similarly,
Russell, a prolific writer, was able to record his ideas and continually
revise them as circumstances required. (The Judge became a master at
the technique, expunging from the written history those features he
deemed unappealing.) Anyway, Russell's simple message translated
well into other cultures, particularly those in western Europe
(including Great Britain's far-flung colonies) and across national and
social boundaries. Having the advantage of written theologies allowed
it to be passed along to others (family members, work mates,
neighbors) making the work of missionaries easier.
You suggest that it's basically a white man's religion and point
to a century's long absence of non-White representation on the
governing body. Both valid points. Another feature that many find
attractive is that the organization's structure and form mimics both the
Catholic Church (I believe this has been commented on before) and
corporate America -- why else are business suits given so much attention, facial
hair being discouraged in men, briefcases regularly used both in public
settings (field service) and at 'company meetings", with a full
complement of company literature. A man who has accomplished very
little in academia or in a professional environment can become "a
somebody" if he applies himself (reaches out), and a woman who
marries such a man adds to her prestige. Certainly a pathetic
situation, but we all know it's true.
For being God`s one true org. on earth it certainly doesn`t represent
an even cross section of the world population. Where are all the bros.
in China? Or Bangledesh? ,etc. Why doesn`t the GB include bros.
from Africa? Or Asia? Or South America for that matter?
Actually, I think Pathofthorns was on to something. Some
gave his idea a racist slant but I didn't see it that way. He said:
At the risk of generalizing too much, I find "white people" will think
more with logic. Other cultures and races often more with their hearts
I could be wrong, but the Watchtower has made very little inroads into
the Native American culture and other peoples who's way of life tends
to be earth oriented (I forget the proper term for it). With all of the
numbers inherent in the religion's concepts (144,000; three and one-
half weeks; two days; etc.) and Fred's endless indulgences into the
prophets, ending with his types and anti-types… it's definitely unlike
the more emotional kinds of religion (Pentecostal, etc.) where
members are allowed to "feel."
While Pathofthorns goes on to say that "The religion plays upon the
emotions and it will be those who don't ever stop and THINK
LOGICALLY and ask themselves DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? that
remain" -- on this point I disagree. While it does play on the emotions -
to the extent that people usually want to live without pain, the fear of
death, the end of all kinds of suffering, hoping to live forever in a
paradise-like setting -- for the most part, the JW religion is one that is
more likely to appeal to logic and reason than emotion. imho.